well I as a comman man does not understand this term what ever police does is fine on one small mistake or at times w/o, a least educated constable can write or quote as many ipc/Crpc even judge can get confused.If we talk of court there r 1000s of lawyers sitting in the court only 5% practice rest only drink tea or make fool of the public coming to them n reason one lawyer can charge any amount ranging from 1 lac to 1 crore per date where other can do thr same in total rs 10000. but result may be different. So it is almost always the poor man will loose n the rich will win.legal profesion is a buisiness that too a tricky one.No law effect a lawyer since he can play with it as he want n there is no solution to it execept the humanity which is missing every where n there is no law which can compansate for it.Judges r also part of the system n they also cann't forget their buty.
--- On Thu, 14/7/11, gurjeet singh <gurjeet417@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: gurjeet singh <gurjeet417@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Re: Why IPC and CrPC should not exist in Free India
To: "humjanenge@googlegroups.com" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, 14 July, 2011, 10:17 AM
hi,
We all know that delay in courts are due to lawyers,
If government make a simple law for lawyers about fees structure all the cases will solve in short period,
lawyers should charge the registration fee from the client at the time of appointment/filling the suits and balance fee will be only at the time of final order/disposal of the case by court, lawyer should not charge the fee on every court hearing, "no justice delay" this is only one idea to speedy disposal of cases.
From: Israel Jayakaran <israel@jayakaran.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 7:54 AM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Re: Why IPC and CrPC should not exist in Free India
Colonel, I would like to add two points for speedy disposal of cases and reduction of cases: (a) A lawyer should be appointed only on the recommendtion of the court and not othewise. {It is my impression that the delays are caused by the lawyers !} The parties concerned should come to the court with all the evidences at their disposal aad argue the cases themselves. And the judge pronounces the judgment based on their evidences. (b) To reduce the number of cases making a journey to the courts, specify minimum puishment for every offence. Presently we have laid down 'maximum punishment." Maximum punishment to be "life or death" even for a minor offence such as cutting the red signal, technically speaking that is.. Israel Jayakaran, Colonel, Signals, Chennai. ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2011 5:48 PM Subject: RE: [HumJanenge] Re: Why IPC and CrPC should not exist in Free India
dear friends, Legal system in India is one of the worsts and we may say this legal system is # 1 reason for all the ills of our great country. I would like to be brief in takling this. Justice delayed is Justice denied. There is no denying this gospel truth. Do we know the average time taken for a case to be settled in our courts. It could be 7 to 8 years on an average and if we take away the cases settled thro compromise or thro death of the parties it could well be 9 years. It is wothwhile going for RTI to know the detailed stats on this aspect. Can we solve the problem Yes we can. 1. Create two shifts for the courts to overcome the paucity of courts. When every industry can go for two/three shifts why not the courts already jammed. 8 am to 2 pm and 2.30 pm to 8.30 pm. Fill in all the posts of judges, we have enough advocates waiting for such jobs. 2. All criminal cases courts should be in the jails and solve a lot of problems such as transport, prisoners escaping while transporting and transport problems in an already choked roads. 3. All cases which are 6 years or older should be settled immediately with whatever facts that are established till now. Let them go for higher courts if the parties are not satisfied. Who should be blamed if they are not able to produce/ prove the facts even after 6 years. 4. No postponement of case should be allowed indescriminately. As per my experience the courts spend more time in giving dates than hearing the cases. Each party should be allowed one postponement for making their cases and any subsequent request for postponement for any reason whatsoever should be at a cost, say Rs,5,000/- for the first postponement. The amount so collected should be shared equally by the other party and the court. The penalty should be doubled every time for any subsequent postponement requests. It would interesting to know how mnay parties would be there to ask for postponements. As on today it is at no cost and every one is taking advantage of the same. Only serious cses will come up for decision in the courts. 5. We have a large no. of case wherein the accused has been arrested but cases have not been filed. In all such cases the accused should be released as soon as he/she spends 66% of the maximum time for the crime charged. All our jails will heave a sigh of relief. There should be some sanctity in the judgement and all should revere but it is losing its relevance as the judgements are reversed in so many cases at each level. Should we go only to Supreme court to get the final verdict. Then why all lower courts. There are no norms for the fees of the advocates. Many times the poor have to sell everything they have to pay the advocates and the cases do not seem to come to an end. Can there be more injustice? CAN WE HAVE A LEGAL RESURRECTION AND A LEGAL REVOLUTION? Hopes and Hopes and till then we suffer in silence. With best wishes and speedy justice to all, Col.V.Nanda Gopal. ub
Date: Tue, 12 Jul 2011 14:16:07 +0530 From: rangajan@yahoo.com Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Re: Why IPC and CrPC should not exist in Free India To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com CC: aridaman@nishanjustice.org; vnsh44@gmail.com Dear Sarbajit Roy, You said: "Dear (misinformed) Friend
The Indian Penal Code is one of the best Laws bestowed on India.
If properly implemented it contains the answers / solutions to at least 75% of India's problems." I fully agree - Every law in India is very good and the catch is (as you rightly put it) - "If properly implemented" - This is where complete failure has occured! - No law is implimented in its proper spirit - it is twisted to suit the powers that be - Therefore we need an Ombudusman to put "fear of Law (God)" into each & every law enforcing authority & to have accountability. Who will do it? The very same people who get full benifit of this twisting?!! ha! ha! ha! warm regards / mathre rangarajan
From: Aridaman Jit Singh <aridaman@nishanjustice.org>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 12 July 2011 10:14 AM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Re: Why IPC and CrPC should not exist in Free India
Dear Dr.VN Sharma, First of all thank you very much for initiating this discussion. It is indeed requirement of our country. The current power/legal structure was created by colonial rulers to protect their own business interests and this edifice of state was created with absolute centralisation of powers with immunity to accountability. If some learned people on this discussion forum interpret it to be best law in the world than they are very right, it is best law(IPC/CrPC) to subjugate the people and treat them as minions and kill them. mame them with impunity and these learned people need to understand that that they will not be treated differently. For the information of these learned people, IPC and CrPC both were created by East India company that created the present edifice(current concept of state) in this structure, state is supreme and as an individual citizen, you are a non entity. Any state actor /administartive authority (in Civvies or in uniform) if rapes or maims you, you can't even seek redressal from the court of law that is the fourth pillar of this sham of democracy(CrPC 197). Take the latest case of attack on peaceful citizens who were at Ramlila Ground. All the fake encounters by police and police acting always as accused friendly agency and pernicious corruption is all outcome of these very laws that gives them unfettered powers to breach the life and liberty of citizens with impunity. When you thrust laws that do not reflect the social spirit of society they are always observed in breach, these learned and wellinformed members also need to understand that by making laws you can't change the psyche of masses and british laws loved by these learned people is result of misconception of democratic governance structure. In Democracy, people are supreme, but your IPC begins with state and chapters dealing with person comes from 299. My learned friends seem to have remained deprived of 107/151 treatement by police or else they would not have termed these laws of lord Macaulay as the best in the world. Macaulay's education system is such that everyone educated in this develops fancy for the (*english) as the most superior thing in the world. We are all products of lord Macaulay's education system, including my learned friend but we need to wake up from this deep slumber. All the protocol in services and ceremonies introduced by colonial rulers, including their laws have been continued and the result is death of democracy, at every step. the transition from colonial structure to democratic structure that should have taken place in India, never happened because my Chacha Nehru wanted to enjoy the absolute powers and his descendants are continuing the same, supported by generations of learned friends. Dr.Sharma, we began our journey on Police Reforms Peoples' Perspective and we are on job to make it a mass movement and change will come, onlything is we have to make our contributions. For the information of my learned friends:- 87% of police in every state comprises of constabulary but under CrPC, a constable has no powers. That leaves your 87% useless. Let my learned friends try a phone call to police and have 107/151 CrPC treatment and we will resume the discussion.My learned friends shall have a look on CrPC 132 and presume themselves in Ramlila Ground on the night intervening 4/5th June with Baba Ramdev and presume themselves to have undergone the Laathi and goli and gas therapy from police and we will resume the discussion on changing these all colonial laws. On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 9:43 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote: Dear (misinformed) Friend
The Indian Penal Code is one of the best Laws bestowed on India.
If properly implemented it contains the answers / solutions to at least 75% of India's problems.
Sarbajit 2011/7/8 डा वी एन शर्मा <vnsh44@gmail.com> Dear Friends, I am in receipt of the following 3 comments in a message with some detailed stories.
The comments are "(1) people who expose the mafia will be clamped down upon with court suits, (2) what educational mafia is upto and (3) see what privatisation of education is leading to......
In my view IPC and CrPC are in the core of all the problems faced in the system of democratic governance of this country and I am surprised why much more intelligent and elderly people than me did not attempt to get these laws repealed already. The laws still exist today in the same letter and spirit as the Britishers framed them for success of their Raj by punishing the Indian people. They were not democrats and were not required to be that for administering a Colony. Hence the toughest of laws against the Indians were the need of the hour for them. Our present Rulers are no different from the Britishers. After all A Ruler is a Ruler-White, grey or black is the colour of the skin , not the color of right to Rule.
And this is not true about Education or Health or corruption or black money etc. One takes one step and if that one step does not suit the Rulers one is behind bars for the unfounded charges of tresspassing the law in some manner or the other. One should not be surprised if he goes behind bars with broken ribs, hands or legs etc or he may reach the other world straight away like many good and well eaning people have been sent. A Jharkhand court has recently ordered death to awell known innocent cultural activist named "Jeetan marandi" who has nothing to do with the crime committed by somebody of the same name. Similar is the case with others too.
In my view a movement is required to repeal the IPC and Cr PC and replace them by an appropriate law for proper Rule of Law. डा वी एन शर्मा / Dr.V.N.Sharma
Cell No.9431102680, Member, Secretariat, All India Forum for Right to Education (AIF-RTE), Working Committee Member, Jan Sansad &
Co-ordinator, Jharkhand Shanti evam Nyaya Yatra (JSNY) -- Aridaman Jit Singh For Team Nishan http://www.nishanjustice.org/http://community.webshots.com/user/Nishan_Justicehttp://call100.blogspot.com/"Highest office in a democracy is not that of the President or Prime Minister but Patriotic Citizen"-Team Nishan
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