Wednesday, September 30, 2015

Re: [IAC#RG] I DON'T WANT TO GO TO JANTAR MANTAR

Ihave been enlightening the public at large and the ex-servicemen the simple definition of OROP .It has taken me many months of explaining each & every provision but here is an article which explains it all so graphically and in a language every one appreciates. The language has been couched in politeness despite the heartburns the writer and the likes of him r going through. Excellant indeed!!

Lt Col. S N DEVADAS (VETERAN) ,
802 A Mandavi Pearl City
End Point Road
Manipal - 576104
Karnataka

On Thursday, 1 October 2015 8:08 AM, Shanti Bhushan <shantibhush@gmail.com> wrote:

Extremely well written.

Sent from my iPad

On 30-Sep-2015, at 4:03 pm, Dilip Fulay <fulays@gmail.com> wrote:

> I DON'T WANT TO GO TO JANTAR MANTAR
>
> When I was commissioned and got my wings in December 1970, I was told that the officers do not discuss two things- politics and pay.
> To discuss ither was considered bad manners.
> I did not.
> By the 25th of every month, my pay used to be over and I would somehow survive till the first of the next month.
> I still considered myself to be rich.
>
> I did not pay attention, when in 1973 the pension of the armed forces was reduced from 70% to 50%.
> I did not know that the pension of the civilians was increased from 30 % to 50 %!
> I did not even know that it was the IAS which was formulating all these rules.
> The thought that it was done after the armed forces had won the 1971 war never occurred to me.
> The thought that it was done after Gen. Manekshaw, as popular as Indira Gandhi in those days, had retired never occurred to me.
> I never knew that as compensation, a bait- OROP had been dangled for the armed forces.
>
> I was not supposed to think money-I did not.
> I enjoyed the challenge posed by my beautiful love – The Seahawk—referred to as 'Flying Coffin' by some ill informed guys.
> Along the way, I lost some friends in air crashes
> It was part of the game. Money had nothing to do with it.
>
> I heard about the sailors sharing houses two/three families to a house.
> I heard about the waiting list for accommodation being one year plus everywhere.
> I did not pay attention.
> There were the three service chiefs and a host of senior officers out there to ensure that all my problems would be well looked into!
> I was happy doing my job.
> Life on board the submarines was tough, but we had tough guys to take it on.
>
> Sailing on small ships, big ships, aircraft carrier, temporary duties at short notice, no reservation in the trains-yet you manage to reach for your duty on time, no accommodation in the messes/ships-all these were part of life.
> Manage what you can. Crib about the rest if wish to. But get the work done! That was the motto.
> Life went on.
> I was happy in the service.
>
> One day I took premature retirement because I had reached the level of my inefficiency.
> The navy gracefully gave me fair amount of money.
> And I was entitled to pension-for life.
> The pension was sufficient for about 40 % of my and my family's survival needs.
> For the rest, obviously I had to work.
>
> I was 45 and fit to work for many more years.
> For the first time the thought came to my mind-if I was in civvies always- how it would have been?
> But I was too proud to feel any regret.
> The navy had looked after me well.
>
> Those Jawans/sailors and airmen who had to leave at the age of 35 or so, certainly had it tough.
> But they were all capable of making their lives again.
> We all had joined of our free will knowing the pros and cons-isn't it?
>
> That there was something like OROP- I only heard in passing.
> Never gave it a thought.
> After all if there was something that I should have got, the three service chiefs and the senior officers would have ensured that I get it!
>
> I heard about veterans returning their medals to the president's office. (The supreme Commander of the Armed Forces never had time to meet those anguished, graying men.)
> I wondered why?
>
> Then I heard a name-Dhanapalan.
> Read his story.
> The army chief had asked him to meet separately when Maj Dhanapalan asked a question about pay anomaly during one of the presentations.
> To meet separately-obviously to put him in his place.
> Dhanapalan did not go to meet him.
> Instead he went to the court after retirement.
> And court asked that he be paid some lakhs of rupees because injustice had been done to him.
>
> Individuals went to the courts.
> ESM organisations sprouted all over India.
> They merged and divided and then merged again and went to the Supreme Court.
> One day, I heard that the Supreme Court had decided that injustice had been done to me!
> And I was to be compensated monetarily for what the GOI had been cheating me of.
> My revised pension was to be given to me.
> The mirror of my faith cracked a little.
> The senior officers could not do it?
> They had no authority or insufficient will?
> What was it that had forced the retired service personnel to go to the courts?
>
> I kept hearing about agitations launched by the veterans.
> Never went for one.
>
> I was different!
> I was/am the last defence that my country has got against external threat and internal problems.
> I could not go on the streets like a common agitator!!
>
> Surely, there were other ways and other senior officers who would ensure that injustice is not done to me or those who come after me.
> I heard about a prime ministerial candidate promising OROP in 100 days of his party coming to power.
> 100 days came and went.
>
> One day my daughter castigated me not going to Jantar Mantar, where a dharna had been in progress for many days.
> She asked me, if I shall refuse the benefits which I shall be getting because of the struggle of all the veterans who were sitting on hunger strike at Jantar Mantar?
>
> Out of curiosity I went.
> Then I went again and again and again.
> And I changed!
> I learnt and am still learning.
>
> There I saw Col Inderjit Singh who first took up the OROP issue in 1982.
> He is more than eighty years old and comes everyday for the dharna in his wheel chair.
> And Satbir Singh, who has made this as the mission of his life.
> He has been ridiculed, threatened, ignored, but possesses a 'never say die spirit'.
> And a widow in her nineties-still waiting for OROP.
>
> On 26 August, Dushyant Dave, president of the Supreme Court Bar Council came with all the office bearers. They pledged support to the ESM and promised to fight for OROP on their behalf, free of cost. They assured us that the Government will not go to the court. If they did, they will lose in the third hearing.
>
> In my visits, the main thing that I learnt was that I was quite ignorant about what OROP was.
> And then the thought came to me, that there is a vast majority of ex-servicemen intent on not sullying their image by taking this route- because they are even more ignorant than I am!
> They have zero knowledge about the issues involved in OROP!
>
> An insidious thought entered my mind, "For forty one years, I and those who were before me, did not hit the streets.
> Who got us OROP?"
> The answer was a painful-No one!
> It was apathy by all concerned.
> We did not think money and the powers that be, quietly-not only denied us money but also kept downgrading the armed forces.
> And those upon whom we had been depending- were helpless!
>
> It was announced when the prime ministerial candidate faced a huge turnout of ESM at Rewari."
> Everyday there are 15 or more ESM/ladies on hunger strike at Jantar Mantar.
> Hundreds of officers and men are present there every day.
> I have seen Lieutenant Generals and senior air force officers at the dharna.
> Not many naval personnel though.
> 'OROP will be announced soon, before the Bihar elections.' They told me at Jantar Mantar.
> It was!
>
> It was announced by the defence minister before the Bihar elections were announced and after the ESM made it clear that they would go to Bihar and intensify their agitation.
> The defence minister of the country said that those who had taken VRS, will not get the benefits of OROP!
> VRS??
> It was clarified that those who had taken pre-mature retirement will not get the benefits of OROP.
> A master stroke to divide the ESM!
> But ESM retaliated by saying, "We do not leave our dead behind in war-you expect us to leave our living brethren behind!"
>
> And I learnt that at every stage, everyday new strategies were being drawn by the guys sitting in the South Block and the North Block to ensure that OROP is given with as little grace as is possible.
> The representatives of the Ex Servicemen have been called many times for discussions.
>
> During the discussions, concessions have been sought from them and obtained.
> And then the powers that be go back and include one more clause detrimental to the definition of OROP.
>
> I heard that the PM had said words to the effect that OROP was being given out of the hard earned money of the poor of this country!
> I wonder-out of whose hard earned money the MPs are paid their salaries!!
> They waste session after session- day after day complete monsoon-winter sessions are washed off without transecting any business!
> There is no mention of poor of the country paying for their callousness!
>
> I was also given to understand that the three chiefs and a select band of the senior officers along with the top babus are already under the ambit of what is called OROP for us.
> I am an ignorant man-always ready to aplogise for my lack of knowledge.
>
> At Faridabad, the PM reiterated the intention to implement OROP in it's original form. And that those who had taken pre-mature retirement will not miss out.
> They was happiness that the pre-mature retirees will get it.
> Next day there was a news item in TOI-statement by a babu-'NO they will not get it.'
> Till to date, no denial of this news item from any government source.
> Is it possible that a babu can overturn what the PM said?
> Then I tried to recollect. At no stage had the PM clearly said that
> 'ALL' the premature retirees will get it!
> The speech was worded in a way that left scope for doubt.
>
> I also learnt about seven anomalies that still need attention.
> I do not understand why this is happening?
>
> On 12 September a rally was held at Jantar Mantar.
> I went for it.
> There were thousands upon thousands veterans and ladies present.
> Was the total number 20,000/30,000?
> How does it matter!
> There were a large number of media personnel/vans present to cover the event.
> It was announced from the stage that the government had muzzled the media.
> Buses had been stopped at the border.
> No reporting of the event!
> It was not reported anywhere.
> Was the media under instructions to blow up any untoward incident at the meet!
> The demonstration has been peaceful-for more than 100days!!
>
> I am bewildered.
> Why does my own government refuse to give me what is mine (everyone in uniform)!
> Why do they refuse to give me what has been agreed to forty three years ago!
> Why do they refuse to clear-in it's original form-what has been promised by successive governments, looked in to microscopically by a parliamentary committee, agreed upon by two-all party parliament approvals, found in order by the highest court of the land and agreed to by the present government.
>
> I was/ am the last line of defence that my country has against external aggression and internal problems.
> I am different.
> I don't want to go to Jantar Mantar!

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Re: [IAC#RG] I DON'T WANT TO GO TO JANTAR MANTAR

It is so informative, clear and convincing. Shame on the policy makers as they are demoralising our nation's defenders with lies and tricks. We support OROP. Regards, Anand Kumar, National Convener, Swaraj Abhiyan.
Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel

-----Original Message-----
From: Dilip Fulay <fulays@gmail.com>
Sender: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net
Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 16:03:21
To: <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Reply-To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: [IAC#RG] I DON'T WANT TO GO TO JANTAR MANTAR

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[IAC#RG]

THE RSS/BJP MESSAGE TO MUSLIMS IN INDIA TODAY

SEEMA MUSTAFA Wednesday, September 30, 2015

NEW DELHI: It was a systematic communal campaign in Dadri, that precedes acts of violence always. First a calf was reported missing, and a campaign unleashed that basically spread rumours linking the calf to eating beef. When the tension reached prescribed levels, a temple in Dadri announced that a particular family--- Muslims of course--- was eating, after keeping, beef in their home. And barely before the echo of the announcement had subsided, a mob attacked the house of Mohammad Akhlaq, in the village in Dadri, pulled him out and beat him to death with bricks. His 22 year old son was also attacked, and is presently battling for his life in a hospital. The mob attacked their grandmother, and tried to molest the women in the house. The family is completely traumatised, terrified and currently praying for the young son's life.

In terms of numbers, always very important for a statistic obsessed government, only one man has died so far. But in terms of impact, the incident has rung alarm bells across the country being reported in the global media at some length. And as the Muzaffarnagar violence at the time of the last Lok Sabha elections had shown, corroborated by subsequent communal incidents, the new strategy of those seeking to divide India on communal lines is to minimise deaths, but to exaggerate impact. Be it in the form of large scale displacement of the minorities, or widespread fear.

In the Dadri attack the intention was not displacement, but to generate fear, to terrify. Hence the singling out of the one family, and the brutal attack where Akhlaq was killed without mercy. Do not eat beef is the ostensible message. The real message is: you are second class citizens, so you will do what you are told in India.

So what are Muslims being told in India? But before that the stereotype which is fed by an ignorant, complicit media; goes largely unchallenged by the so called regional parties as they neither have the cadres nor the organisation to do little more than listen; and that is slowly being injected as a poisonous venom into society at every available opportunity, borrowing also from the US led campaign against Muslims across the world.

1. Muslims in India are a monolith and hence dangerous;

2. At best they are of two types: the APJ Abdul Kalam variety or the Dawood Ibrahim kind. And the second are in the majority, hence have to be hunted out before they hurt others;

3. They are influenced greatly by the extremist politics of the terror groups in Pakistan and West Asia;

4. They are growing rapidly and pose a challenge to the stability of India;

5. They work against the cultural ethos of India, as they eat beef, take away our daughters, are aggressive in following their religion, and hence a threat to Hinduism;

In this discourse there is no room for the reality. That Muslims are not a monolith, and are as culturally different as all other Indians; that they are largely liberal, even if they are religious as are non-Muslims in India; that they have shunned extremist politics to a point where they vote always for the secular option and not for the kinds of Owaisi, or the Jamaat e Islami in elections; that they have done nothing, repeat nothing, to be branded anti-national; that they too do not eat beef, and are secular and Indian as the last Indian.

And hence through the systematic, crafted, manipulated communal incidents come the many messages. Muslims are being told very deliberately, and through violence:

1. Do not marry outside your religion. The entire 'love jihad' campaign launched in Uttar Pradesh in particular by the RSS affiliates was directed at invoking terror through deliberate attacks on Hindu-Muslim couples, and on the families of the Muslim young people so involved, making it clear that this will not be tolerated;

2. Do not eat meat or beef. The central government itself passed an order against the export of beef. The Maharashtra government has gone many steps further. This should have been a message to all Indians, but through the campaign and now Akhlaq's murder it has been demonstrated that the defaulters are Muslims. Hence Muslims must follow the food code or suffer the consequences, as posts on the social media by self-acknowledged Hindutva acolytes profess in language that is abusive and vitriolic.

3. Do not live in cosmopolitan colonies, move into ghettos. Mumbai, Ahmedabad, Delhi have managed to make this a rule with most of Gujarat covered, and other cities and states following. Muslims do not easily get rented accommodation in these cities, and are also not allowed to buy property easily by the residents associations.

4. Do not become too successful economically. The communal violence has been increasingly targeting Muslim businessmen, with shops being specifically targeted.In fact the Congress government in Maharashtra also fed into this by unleashing a wave of terror against Muslim professionals, many of whom were arrested on suspicion of having "terror links.' While some were released after months and years, there are many languishing in jail for crimes that local lawyers have described as concocted.

5. And speak only when you are asked to, actually not at all. This is the message coming out of a major attack on Muslim writers, academics, intelligentsia on the social media where trolls describing themselves as bhakts of PM Narendra Modi, Hindutva acolytes and carrying profile pictures of angry gods literally abuse and threaten any one writing under a Muslim name, questioning their patriotism, their religion and their identity. In fact Muslims are repeatedly reminded when they share in democratic debate, that they should remember how other countries ---Pakistan for instance---treats its minorities, and should thus follow a path of caution.

The campaign is virulent and relentless. And political parties in states going to the polls in particular are now feeling this pressure and reacting to it in some cases. In UP, Mulayam Singh and the Samajwadi party became bystanders during, before and after the Muzaffarnagar violence, doing little to counter the campaign of divisiveness unleashed by the BJP and the affiliates at the time. In Bihar, Janata Dal(U) leaders have taken cognisance of what MP Pavan Varma described to this writer, as a virulent communal campaign by the RSS and the BJP to consolidate the majority vote, and are trying to combat it. As Varma said, "RSS cadres have fanned into the districts and are working systematically to create a divide." He was optimistic, however, they would not succeed in Bihar as they had in UP, maintaining that Chief Minister Nitish Kumar is alive to this and keeping a close watch.

Seema Mustafa

thecitizen.in

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

Hi friends

I have been going through the debate on OROP for some time and everybody is trying to outsmart each other . But the fact remains that country respects the armed forces for their contribution and keep on doing so till armed forces do not start considering them above all and placing their demands by threats and strikes ( though at present only by retired personnels) . Now let's look at the india's budgetary allocation for the armed forces which is far more bigger than any other govt organizations and a major portion of the same goes into salaries and pensions and not much is left for upgradation and modernization. In a country like ours where more than 30 percent go below the poverty line if Rs 26 and Rs 32 per day is taken as the benchmark income for rural and urban area as given by the government , u can understand their plight . In light of this whether a higher pension is justified when a major portion of the civil society is deprived of this benefit.

Our respected friends from the armed forces always talk of their sacrifice and it is not hidden from any one and that is why they command respect. But when you preferred uniform over others u already had the nation and sacrifice in mind so why remind . U r doing your job with perfection and so r others contributing (taxes)for the armed forces . However as a responsible citizen you have to come out and see how many people in this country have pay and perks offered the way it is for the armed forces. Healthcare one of the costliest burden on the old age civilians today is a nightmare but not for armed forces as there are military hospital or a new govt scheme to take care, same is the case for other privileges for you including canteen facilities. The pay commissions compensates the govt employees but where r the schemes of pay revisions in private sectors and for poor masses and there r so many privileges attached to the uniform with respect. Today's pay and perks are highly competitive in armed forces and even the pensions are linked to compensate the increase in cost of living. Post retirement settlement schemes, priorities and preferences in allocations in PSU etc are also there. I see many retired persons employed at good positions if they are deserving .So if our friends wants to fight , sit on Jantar mantar it should be in the larger interest of the nation and masses and not for the benefit of self . please raise your voice against corruption, Wrongdoing etc , u will be more respected . Your joining the armed forces and pledging to serve does not come to an end once u retire so please keep fighting for the betterment without any expectation .

I must say sorry to my friends if I hv hurt their sentiments.

Thanks

jha

On 01-Oct-2015, at 1:18 am, Randhir Sethi <shebon@gmail.com> wrote:

AS THEY SAY LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS DANGEROUS, SO LET ALL FAUJIS JUST IGNORE THE STATEMENTS BEING MADE BY THE LIKES OF MR SARABJIT , BHARAT BHUSHAN, KAPOOR ET ALL

JAI HIND

R S S SETHI.

AT THIS RATE THEY MAY SOONER OR LATER NOT HAVE A NATIONAL FLAG TO BE UNFURLED ON THE REPUBLIC OR INDEPENDENCE DAY

CHEERS TO THEIR THOUGHT PROCESS

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015, PA Kumaran <pakumaran@gmail.com> wrote:
Mr Sarbajit,

We all have to stick to a minimum level of decency when we communicate. You cannot call names or accuse someone without any credence. Whatever said and done ................... you seem to have forgotten that the Defence Forces have been seeking OROP since last 43 years. It is the bureaucrats & politicians who, on the victory of the 1971 war, presented the Defence Forces with a reduction of pension (!!!) from 70 % to 50%, where as they helped themselves with an increase of pension from 30% to 50%. So who sowed the seed ? There are innumerable such examples where in Defence Forces were let down from generation to generations. Others could go on stirke/ hartal etc - where does the fouji go ? He is pushed towards the wall.

You seem to be more obsessed with Defence Forces for getting "Pension" and that you are not getting it.

In any organisation there may by an odd person who may be a black sheep and because of him the organisation gets a bad name. You just mentioned two ...imagine in a huge organisation like Defence forces, an aberration also enquired into and the guilty punished. So let us not quote those.

Sir, going on a tangent, do you need Defence Forces at all ? Your aversion speaks all. Do you realize how dangerous the situation will be , when no one wants to join the Defence Forces. The cumulative effect of shortages in manpower will be only welcome by our adversaries . In this context where you stand ? In future, your own grand children will curse those who did not take care of the Defence Forces.

I just wanted to drive home some points. There are many more such injustices.

Suffice to say that in a democratic country like India, it is the right of the Defence Forces to fight for OROP (without diluting its contents)

Lastly, if I have hurt anyone by my utterances, it is only to highlight the injustice that is being barraged on the defence forces.

With Regards,
Col PA Kumaran (Retd)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Brig Saha

It seems our veterans lose their ability to detect friend from foe
once they retire if you lot routinely dish out terms like "traitor" to
describe your channel hosts.

FYI, I am not a babu. Neither do I get any pension / salary from the Govt.

What "I" am is the poor fool who pays for all the worthless and
whining rascals hiding behind terms like patriotism and nationalism
for their greedy / selfish ends. I am the person who pays for ketchup
colonels and their fake encounters. I am the person who pays for
Adarsh Housing scams. ...

You people were paid enough for any work you allegedly did while in
service. If you couldn't save while you were in service I fail to see
why we citizens should pay for your existence and your booze once you
retire. (NB: By "you" I mean each and every person who gets a pension
- starting from our worthless MPs)

I am sure that many ordinary citizens would say much the same thing
once we leave the hypocrisy behind.

Best regards
.
Sarbajit

On 9/27/15, kashi saha <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
> Sarabjt,
> Why you donot you spk of the harm done by the your patriotic IAS super babus
> by blackmailing the Politicians. When a person joins a service with certain
> terms and conditions through Gazette notification how can it be changed to
> down grade the same in pay and pension. All veterans and those who defended
> the nation till 1971, are all pre 1973 order issued removing the OROP and
> pension quantum( 70% of last pay drawn). Those are people fighting in
> peaceful manner trying to bring sense into these people in power.
> You are asking us to fight with you( It seems from your comment you are one
> of those glorified Babu ) to bring down your self enhanced privileges, why
> is our job you deserve it or not you convince the Govt. what we are
> interested is a parity you increase yours increase ours too. You do not do
> any thing extra to contribute to the nation. You do your bit and we do our
> bit. If you fail we take on the job even if it is messed up so that the
> nation do not suffer. and if we fail in our job you can only suck your
> thumb. What you IAS/IFS and Political Nexus have done so far:
> 1. In 1971,You messed up the with your foreign policy with Bangladesh after
> the liberation. And it is a thorn on our back, a small helmet for terrorist
> and entry point of CFCurrency and terrorist . A proactive policy could have
> avoided all this
> 2. After 1971 You messed up with your policy against Pak even after we had
> handed over a trophy of more than 90K Pak POW., you could have bargained all
> our POW and POK.
> 3. In 1947 You messed up the Kashmir by asking us to Ceasefire when we were
> in the verge of taking over now so called POK
> 4. Twice we took over Strategic passes in Kashmir you forced us to hand them
> over now the Chinese with their armed forces have a strategic road to PAK.
> 5. Srilanka you created a problem and now we are loosing it to China.
> 6. Myanmar oil pipeline to China again failed in your foreign policy.
> 7. Internally Naxal, NE interstate relationship, sharing of water allocation
> of development fund and projects , you failed every where.
> Why IAS?? to protected constitution at national interest irrespective of
> party in power, advise the politicians who are masses rep against
> unconstitutional, antinational actions. Look into your self are doing that.
> How can any one justify subsidized food for the MPs, pensions with OROP
> principle for the MP with even one election win, There are few Khemkas and
> Chatuvedis but majority of you are self serving un patriot, with yes sir
> attitude for kushy transfer Children studying abroad and after 60 years Apex
> scale pension and member of a commission.
> You are the traitors and need to be sorted out not the politicians.
> Jai Hind Brigadier Kashi Nath Saha Mob: 9810728364 Email:
> knsaha44@yahoo.com

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Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

Exceptionally perceptive !!!

Can IESMs acknowledge that when educated people who bore arms for the
State for decades are publicly humiliated in this way for demanding
their rights, then what recourse do illiterate and otherwise unarmed
"adivasis" have except to take up arms ?

The larger question we should ask is "WHO are the unseen forces who
are causing such 'popular' uprisings in urban citizens, and WHY ??"

PS: Gul Panag is an actor. She is also an aspiring politician. Smarmy
articles by actors implying that BECAUSE a candidate / party made an
election promise THEREFORE it MUST be implemented without regard to
its consequences is sheer POLITICAL OPPORTUNISM and fishing in
troubled waters. Her own party's leaders are well known for making
promises they have no intention of keeping. Truly, politics is the
last resort of scoundrels.

Sarbajit

On 10/1/15, Vidyut <wide.aware@gmail.com> wrote:
> There are many wise people speaking who have studied the problem. Others
> who have first hand experience.
>
> As a lay person and someone for whom the existing pensions sound wonderful
> as a full salary, let alone a pension (most of India) I am in no place to
> comment on whether it is appropriate or not.
>
> That said, the argument of OROP being for all is not an unfair expectation.
> the pensions are not just available to armed forces, but all. I agree with
> the thoughts someone shared that everyone serves the nation in their own
> way, and the glorification of the armed forces overloads the debate with
> emotionalism and prevents frank debate.
>
> But in terms of what should be done. I think Gul Panag nailed it in an
> article she had written as an open letter to the Prime Minister. "It is a
> matter of Honor. Your (PM) honor". I think she argues rightly that the time
> for this debate has passed. OROP has been promised already, it is a matter
> of implementation.
>
> More than how much money and deserving and such things, I think promises
> made to people are taken too lightly in India. BJP election campaign wooed
> the soldiers with various promises, one of which was OROP. It was confirmed
> after the government came to power. Then it must be done. The money or
> other aspects of it, in my view are far less important than our willingness
> to be debated away from demanding that promises be kept. Whether it is a
> rupee or several thousand crore. The voice of a Prime Ministerial candidate
> and then Prime Minister must have more worth than a scribble on tissue
> paper that gets discarded. And this means implementing it in a fair and
> transparent manner. The manipulations, sabotage of process and other things
> indicate malintent on part of the government. The assault on retired
> veterans by police was unpardonable. This sort of insult must not be
> ignored with petty discussions on issues that have already been left behind
> in the decision making.
>
> Recently we were shocked by a thousands strong mob lynching a man to death
> and injuring his son critically (
> http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/prime-time/prime-time-a-man-killed-due-to-rumor/385050
> ). There are many comments on who is the real patriot with the surviving
> victim turning out to be a soldier. As several on Twitter pointed out,
> Muslim or not, soldiers generally receive respect from the communities they
> live in. Today, beyond these assaults, the soldier's sister was manhandled
> by the mob and would have been raped had the police not arrived. A temple
> was used to incite the mob against a soldier's family. Where does this kind
> of disregard come from? What happens when the government itself is
> sabotaging the dignity of armed forces and using cunning ways to discredit
> them, deny them their rights and have them assaulted? What happens to how
> the blind (and frankly demented) supporters of this view see armed forces?
>
> It is a matter of honor. If a word given must be gone back on due to
> reasons that stand scritiny, it should be accompanied by a credible apology
> and humility and willingness to transparently renegotiate. Not reckless
> promises at election time and humiliation setting a precedent in full
> public sight once time to deliver. It should not happen to anyone, but that
> it happens to armed forces has additional implications to
> government/civil/military relationships, morale of forces as well as morale
> of citizens - if this is what happens to soldiers asking for rights, what
> humanity can the displaced adivasi expect?
>

Re: [IAC#RG] I DON'T WANT TO GO TO JANTAR MANTAR

Extremely well written.

Sent from my iPad

On 30-Sep-2015, at 4:03 pm, Dilip Fulay <fulays@gmail.com> wrote:

> I DON'T WANT TO GO TO JANTAR MANTAR
>
> When I was commissioned and got my wings in December 1970, I was told that the officers do not discuss two things- politics and pay.
> To discuss ither was considered bad manners.
> I did not.
> By the 25th of every month, my pay used to be over and I would somehow survive till the first of the next month.
> I still considered myself to be rich.
>
> I did not pay attention, when in 1973 the pension of the armed forces was reduced from 70% to 50%.
> I did not know that the pension of the civilians was increased from 30 % to 50 %!
> I did not even know that it was the IAS which was formulating all these rules.
> The thought that it was done after the armed forces had won the 1971 war never occurred to me.
> The thought that it was done after Gen. Manekshaw, as popular as Indira Gandhi in those days, had retired never occurred to me.
> I never knew that as compensation, a bait- OROP had been dangled for the armed forces.
>
> I was not supposed to think money-I did not.
> I enjoyed the challenge posed by my beautiful love – The Seahawk—referred to as 'Flying Coffin' by some ill informed guys.
> Along the way, I lost some friends in air crashes
> It was part of the game. Money had nothing to do with it.
>
> I heard about the sailors sharing houses two/three families to a house.
> I heard about the waiting list for accommodation being one year plus everywhere.
> I did not pay attention.
> There were the three service chiefs and a host of senior officers out there to ensure that all my problems would be well looked into!
> I was happy doing my job.
> Life on board the submarines was tough, but we had tough guys to take it on.
>
> Sailing on small ships, big ships, aircraft carrier, temporary duties at short notice, no reservation in the trains-yet you manage to reach for your duty on time, no accommodation in the messes/ships-all these were part of life.
> Manage what you can. Crib about the rest if wish to. But get the work done! That was the motto.
> Life went on.
> I was happy in the service.
>
> One day I took premature retirement because I had reached the level of my inefficiency.
> The navy gracefully gave me fair amount of money.
> And I was entitled to pension-for life.
> The pension was sufficient for about 40 % of my and my family's survival needs.
> For the rest, obviously I had to work.
>
> I was 45 and fit to work for many more years.
> For the first time the thought came to my mind-if I was in civvies always- how it would have been?
> But I was too proud to feel any regret.
> The navy had looked after me well.
>
> Those Jawans/sailors and airmen who had to leave at the age of 35 or so, certainly had it tough.
> But they were all capable of making their lives again.
> We all had joined of our free will knowing the pros and cons-isn't it?
>
> That there was something like OROP- I only heard in passing.
> Never gave it a thought.
> After all if there was something that I should have got, the three service chiefs and the senior officers would have ensured that I get it!
>
> I heard about veterans returning their medals to the president's office. (The supreme Commander of the Armed Forces never had time to meet those anguished, graying men.)
> I wondered why?
>
> Then I heard a name-Dhanapalan.
> Read his story.
> The army chief had asked him to meet separately when Maj Dhanapalan asked a question about pay anomaly during one of the presentations.
> To meet separately-obviously to put him in his place.
> Dhanapalan did not go to meet him.
> Instead he went to the court after retirement.
> And court asked that he be paid some lakhs of rupees because injustice had been done to him.
>
> Individuals went to the courts.
> ESM organisations sprouted all over India.
> They merged and divided and then merged again and went to the Supreme Court.
> One day, I heard that the Supreme Court had decided that injustice had been done to me!
> And I was to be compensated monetarily for what the GOI had been cheating me of.
> My revised pension was to be given to me.
> The mirror of my faith cracked a little.
> The senior officers could not do it?
> They had no authority or insufficient will?
> What was it that had forced the retired service personnel to go to the courts?
>
> I kept hearing about agitations launched by the veterans.
> Never went for one.
>
> I was different!
> I was/am the last defence that my country has got against external threat and internal problems.
> I could not go on the streets like a common agitator!!
>
> Surely, there were other ways and other senior officers who would ensure that injustice is not done to me or those who come after me.
> I heard about a prime ministerial candidate promising OROP in 100 days of his party coming to power.
> 100 days came and went.
>
> One day my daughter castigated me not going to Jantar Mantar, where a dharna had been in progress for many days.
> She asked me, if I shall refuse the benefits which I shall be getting because of the struggle of all the veterans who were sitting on hunger strike at Jantar Mantar?
>
> Out of curiosity I went.
> Then I went again and again and again.
> And I changed!
> I learnt and am still learning.
>
> There I saw Col Inderjit Singh who first took up the OROP issue in 1982.
> He is more than eighty years old and comes everyday for the dharna in his wheel chair.
> And Satbir Singh, who has made this as the mission of his life.
> He has been ridiculed, threatened, ignored, but possesses a 'never say die spirit'.
> And a widow in her nineties-still waiting for OROP.
>
> On 26 August, Dushyant Dave, president of the Supreme Court Bar Council came with all the office bearers. They pledged support to the ESM and promised to fight for OROP on their behalf, free of cost. They assured us that the Government will not go to the court. If they did, they will lose in the third hearing.
>
> In my visits, the main thing that I learnt was that I was quite ignorant about what OROP was.
> And then the thought came to me, that there is a vast majority of ex-servicemen intent on not sullying their image by taking this route- because they are even more ignorant than I am!
> They have zero knowledge about the issues involved in OROP!
>
> An insidious thought entered my mind, "For forty one years, I and those who were before me, did not hit the streets.
> Who got us OROP?"
> The answer was a painful-No one!
> It was apathy by all concerned.
> We did not think money and the powers that be, quietly-not only denied us money but also kept downgrading the armed forces.
> And those upon whom we had been depending- were helpless!
>
> It was announced when the prime ministerial candidate faced a huge turnout of ESM at Rewari."
> Everyday there are 15 or more ESM/ladies on hunger strike at Jantar Mantar.
> Hundreds of officers and men are present there every day.
> I have seen Lieutenant Generals and senior air force officers at the dharna.
> Not many naval personnel though.
> 'OROP will be announced soon, before the Bihar elections.' They told me at Jantar Mantar.
> It was!
>
> It was announced by the defence minister before the Bihar elections were announced and after the ESM made it clear that they would go to Bihar and intensify their agitation.
> The defence minister of the country said that those who had taken VRS, will not get the benefits of OROP!
> VRS??
> It was clarified that those who had taken pre-mature retirement will not get the benefits of OROP.
> A master stroke to divide the ESM!
> But ESM retaliated by saying, "We do not leave our dead behind in war-you expect us to leave our living brethren behind!"
>
> And I learnt that at every stage, everyday new strategies were being drawn by the guys sitting in the South Block and the North Block to ensure that OROP is given with as little grace as is possible.
> The representatives of the Ex Servicemen have been called many times for discussions.
>
> During the discussions, concessions have been sought from them and obtained.
> And then the powers that be go back and include one more clause detrimental to the definition of OROP.
>
> I heard that the PM had said words to the effect that OROP was being given out of the hard earned money of the poor of this country!
> I wonder-out of whose hard earned money the MPs are paid their salaries!!
> They waste session after session- day after day complete monsoon-winter sessions are washed off without transecting any business!
> There is no mention of poor of the country paying for their callousness!
>
> I was also given to understand that the three chiefs and a select band of the senior officers along with the top babus are already under the ambit of what is called OROP for us.
> I am an ignorant man-always ready to aplogise for my lack of knowledge.
>
> At Faridabad, the PM reiterated the intention to implement OROP in it's original form. And that those who had taken pre-mature retirement will not miss out.
> They was happiness that the pre-mature retirees will get it.
> Next day there was a news item in TOI-statement by a babu-'NO they will not get it.'
> Till to date, no denial of this news item from any government source.
> Is it possible that a babu can overturn what the PM said?
> Then I tried to recollect. At no stage had the PM clearly said that
> 'ALL' the premature retirees will get it!
> The speech was worded in a way that left scope for doubt.
>
> I also learnt about seven anomalies that still need attention.
> I do not understand why this is happening?
>
> On 12 September a rally was held at Jantar Mantar.
> I went for it.
> There were thousands upon thousands veterans and ladies present.
> Was the total number 20,000/30,000?
> How does it matter!
> There were a large number of media personnel/vans present to cover the event.
> It was announced from the stage that the government had muzzled the media.
> Buses had been stopped at the border.
> No reporting of the event!
> It was not reported anywhere.
> Was the media under instructions to blow up any untoward incident at the meet!
> The demonstration has been peaceful-for more than 100days!!
>
> I am bewildered.
> Why does my own government refuse to give me what is mine (everyone in uniform)!
> Why do they refuse to give me what has been agreed to forty three years ago!
> Why do they refuse to clear-in it's original form-what has been promised by successive governments, looked in to microscopically by a parliamentary committee, agreed upon by two-all party parliament approvals, found in order by the highest court of the land and agreed to by the present government.
>
> I was/ am the last line of defence that my country has against external aggression and internal problems.
> I am different.
> I don't want to go to Jantar Mantar!

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Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

My very Dear Brothers:

May I please bring to ur Notice something of great importance, n will put the topic under discussion n a new perspective, which u have never n ur wildest Dream, imagined as a Reality.

After WW2, all of Hitler n his band of " Scientists", were given safe passage, under Pres.Truman, n the Secret Project was called " Project PaperClip".

Hitlers Dream of a New World Order was adopted, n ever since, they've bin plotting, n scheming with this Goal n Mind.

Hitler sought complete control of All Humanity. The New World Order is the same.

For a small bunch o people, to CONTROL all Humanity, every weapon, System was used n implemented.

All the wicked unethical Scientists, including Hitler, were safe given safe passage: between Russia n USA.

They were put in positions of Lectureship n Harvard, n most impt. Heading the CIA, which is the Heirachy n inheritance of the Gestapo.

These guys :CIA : have a wing called the MKUltra Mind Programming.Individual n Mass. They Research, shape n mould Human beings to what their motives are.
N their motives r Complete Control.
Complete means complete. No compromises. N they will stop at Nothing, until the Message reaches Home to all Humanity.

V r all creatures of Programming..which starts from the day v enter school.N v r ever n the Box, that has been created for each of us, thru various Conditioning Methods,4 m childhood.

Surrender, walk to ur death, swearing allegiance to a printed peace of cloth, to receive a piece of paper: a Certificate of Acknowledgement,a piece of Metal..n glow in the Glory of a MAIMED Body, or a DEAD Person...

All the mentioned quotes by those "learned" poeple u mentioned,r indicating that those learned people were insiders, who knew the Truth, n wanted to b remembered by Humanity, as u gentlemen truly are.

Fortunately, there are methods of re programming. Anyone interested, pls contact me : to touch ur Original Level O Existence..

N vl i even get an acknowledment..4 my input..

well, v vl just have to watch n see.

A very Good Day 2 u Gentlemen.

Love ur Fire.

Burn Bright N Peace n Glow

God Bless U.

pushpa J vijula
M:7678009108
E:pvijula@yahoo.com

Life Coach.
Property Consultant.

------------------------------
On Thu 1 Oct, 2015 2:05 AM IST Sarbajit Roy wrote:

>Dear Major (Retd.) Ravi
>
>My quotes are exactly as stated and without distortions. Since you
>have confined yourself to only one of my cited quotes "Patriotism is
>the last refuge of scoundrels" and dismissed the others with sweeping
>generalisations, let me respond as follows,
>
>The phrase "Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels" is attributed
>to Samuel Johnson (b. 1709 - d. 1784), whereas the phrase "Politics is
>the last refuge of scoundrels" is attributed to George Bernard Shaw
>(b.1856 – d. 1950). A difference of approx. 150 years, and it is
>crystal clear which phrase came first.
>
>Hence your argument is as fundamentally flawed as the present OROP demand.
>
>Unfortunately, a completely misguided section of publicity and
>politically inclined veterans are intent upon permanently damaging
>India's FUTURE Armed Forces (and its fighting capabilities) with their
>PAST demands. I don't want to elaborate on this in the present
>surcharged environment because most veterans posting here are not
>prepared for balanced dialogue with PATRIOTS like ourselves on FACTS.
>
>PS: Many frauds were played on our 'faujis' over the decades, but 2
>wrongs do not make a right.
>
>Sarbajit
>
>On 9/30/15, Ravindran P M <raviforjustice@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Sarbajit
>>
>> You can add popular names to distorted quotes to fool people and as it is
>> truly said, you can fool all the people for some time and some people for
>> all the time but not all the people for all the time.
>>
>> For your kind information it is not patriotism but politics that was said
>> to be last refuge of a scoundrel from which another quotable quote has
>> followed: those who dismiss politics as the last refuge of a scoundrel are
>> bound to be ruled by scoundrels!
>>
>> Anyhow there is no need to dispute the other quotes as the lies in them are
>> evident from the basic definition of patriotism.
>>
>> ravi
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Major Ravi
>>
>> I have no pretensions to being an intellectual. The quotes are from
>> greater minds.
>>
>> "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" is attributed to Samuel
>> Johnson
>>
>> "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" to Oscar Wilde
>>
>> "Patriotism is the egg from which wars are hatched" to Guy De Maupassant
>>
>> "Patriot : the fellow who hollers the loudest without knowing what he is
>> hollering about" - Mark Twain
>>
>> "A nation is a society deluded about its ancestry and united in its
>> hatred
>> of its neighbours" - William Ralph Inge
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>

RE: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

Dear Friends,

POLITICS IS THE LAST RESORT OF A SCOUNDREL and not what has been quoted .

Col.V.nanda Gopal. (retd)

Thu, 1 Oct 2015 02:05:43 +0530

From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

Dear Major (Retd.) Ravi

My quotes are exactly as stated and without distortions. Since you
have confined yourself to only one of my cited quotes "Patriotism is
the last refuge of scoundrels" and dismissed the others with sweeping
generalisations, let me respond as follows,

The phrase "Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels" is attributed
to Samuel Johnson (b. 1709 - d. 1784), whereas the phrase "Politics is
the last refuge of scoundrels" is attributed to George Bernard Shaw
(b.1856 – d. 1950).  A difference of approx. 150 years, and it is
crystal clear which phrase came first.

Hence your argument is as fundamentally flawed as the present OROP demand.

Unfortunately, a completely misguided section of publicity and
politically inclined veterans are intent upon permanently damaging
India's FUTURE Armed Forces (and its fighting capabilities) with their
PAST demands. I don't want to elaborate on this in the present
surcharged environment because most veterans posting here are not
prepared for balanced dialogue with PATRIOTS like ourselves on FACTS.

PS: Many frauds were played on our 'faujis' over the decades, but 2
wrongs do not make a right.

Sarbajit

On 9/30/15, Ravindran P M <raviforjustice@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sarbajit
>
> You can add popular names to distorted quotes to fool people and as it is
> truly said, you can fool all the people for some time and some people for
> all the time but not all the people for all the time.
>
> For your kind information it is not patriotism but politics that was said
> to be last refuge of a scoundrel from which another quotable quote has
> followed: those who dismiss politics as the last refuge of a scoundrel are
> bound to be ruled by scoundrels!
>
> Anyhow there is no need to dispute the other quotes as the lies in them are
> evident from the basic definition of patriotism.
>
> ravi
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Major Ravi
>>
>> I have no pretensions to being an intellectual. The quotes are from
>> greater minds.
>>
>> "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" is attributed to Samuel
>> Johnson
>>
>> "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" to Oscar Wilde
>>
>> "Patriotism is the egg from which wars are hatched" to Guy De Maupassant
>>
>> "Patriot : the fellow who hollers the loudest without knowing what he is
>> hollering about" - Mark Twain
>>
>> "A nation is a society deluded about its ancestry and united in its
>> hatred
>> of its neighbours" - William Ralph Inge
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>

Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists" Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

There are many wise people speaking who have studied the problem. Others who have first hand experience.

As a lay person and someone for whom the existing pensions sound wonderful as a full salary, let alone a pension (most of India) I am in no place to comment on whether it is appropriate or not.

That said, the argument of OROP being for all is not an unfair expectation. the pensions are not just available to armed forces, but all. I agree with the thoughts someone shared that everyone serves the nation in their own way, and the glorification of the armed forces overloads the debate with emotionalism and prevents frank debate.

But in terms of what should be done. I think Gul Panag nailed it in an article she had written as an open letter to the Prime Minister. "It is a matter of Honor. Your (PM) honor". I think she argues rightly that the time for this debate has passed. OROP has been promised already, it is a matter of implementation.

More than how much money and deserving and such things, I think promises made to people are taken too lightly in India. BJP election campaign wooed the soldiers with various promises, one of which was OROP. It was confirmed after the government came to power. Then it must be done. The money or other aspects of it, in my view are far less important than our willingness to be debated away from demanding that promises be kept. Whether it is a rupee or several thousand crore. The voice of a Prime Ministerial candidate and then Prime Minister must have more worth than a scribble on tissue paper that gets discarded. And this means implementing it in a fair and transparent manner. The manipulations, sabotage of process and other things indicate malintent on part of the government. The assault on retired veterans by police was unpardonable. This sort of insult must not be ignored with petty discussions on issues that have already been left behind in the decision making.

Recently we were shocked by a thousands strong mob lynching a man to death and injuring his son critically (http://www.ndtv.com/video/player/prime-time/prime-time-a-man-killed-due-to-rumor/385050 ). There are many comments on who is the real patriot with the surviving victim turning out to be a soldier. As several on Twitter pointed out, Muslim or not, soldiers generally receive respect from the communities they live in. Today, beyond these assaults, the soldier's sister was manhandled by the mob and would have been raped had the police not arrived. A temple was used to incite the mob against a soldier's family. Where does this kind of disregard come from? What happens when the government itself is sabotaging the dignity of armed forces and using cunning ways to discredit them, deny them their rights and have them assaulted? What happens to how the blind (and frankly demented) supporters of this view see armed forces?

It is a matter of honor. If a word given must be gone back on due to reasons that stand scritiny, it should be accompanied by a credible apology and humility and willingness to transparently renegotiate. Not reckless promises at election time and humiliation setting a precedent in full public sight once time to deliver. It should not happen to anyone, but that it happens to armed forces has additional implications to government/civil/military relationships, morale of forces as well as morale of citizens - if this is what happens to soldiers asking for rights, what humanity can the displaced adivasi expect?

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

Dear Major (Retd.) Ravi

My quotes are exactly as stated and without distortions. Since you
have confined yourself to only one of my cited quotes "Patriotism is
the last refuge of scoundrels" and dismissed the others with sweeping
generalisations, let me respond as follows,

The phrase "Patriotism is the last refuge of scoundrels" is attributed
to Samuel Johnson (b. 1709 - d. 1784), whereas the phrase "Politics is
the last refuge of scoundrels" is attributed to George Bernard Shaw
(b.1856 – d. 1950). A difference of approx. 150 years, and it is
crystal clear which phrase came first.

Hence your argument is as fundamentally flawed as the present OROP demand.

Unfortunately, a completely misguided section of publicity and
politically inclined veterans are intent upon permanently damaging
India's FUTURE Armed Forces (and its fighting capabilities) with their
PAST demands. I don't want to elaborate on this in the present
surcharged environment because most veterans posting here are not
prepared for balanced dialogue with PATRIOTS like ourselves on FACTS.

PS: Many frauds were played on our 'faujis' over the decades, but 2
wrongs do not make a right.

Sarbajit

On 9/30/15, Ravindran P M <raviforjustice@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sarbajit
>
> You can add popular names to distorted quotes to fool people and as it is
> truly said, you can fool all the people for some time and some people for
> all the time but not all the people for all the time.
>
> For your kind information it is not patriotism but politics that was said
> to be last refuge of a scoundrel from which another quotable quote has
> followed: those who dismiss politics as the last refuge of a scoundrel are
> bound to be ruled by scoundrels!
>
> Anyhow there is no need to dispute the other quotes as the lies in them are
> evident from the basic definition of patriotism.
>
> ravi
>
> On Tue, Sep 29, 2015 at 10:56 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Dear Major Ravi
>>
>> I have no pretensions to being an intellectual. The quotes are from
>> greater minds.
>>
>> "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel" is attributed to Samuel
>> Johnson
>>
>> "Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious" to Oscar Wilde
>>
>> "Patriotism is the egg from which wars are hatched" to Guy De Maupassant
>>
>> "Patriot : the fellow who hollers the loudest without knowing what he is
>> hollering about" - Mark Twain
>>
>> "A nation is a society deluded about its ancestry and united in its
>> hatred
>> of its neighbours" - William Ralph Inge
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>

[IAC#RG] I DON'T WANT TO GO TO JANTAR MANTAR

> I DON'T WANT TO GO TO JANTAR MANTAR
>
> When I was commissioned and got my wings in December 1970, I was told that the officers do not discuss two things- politics and pay.
> To discuss ither was considered bad manners.
> I did not.
> By the 25th of every month, my pay used to be over and I would somehow survive till the first of the next month.
> I still considered myself to be rich.
>
> I did not pay attention, when in 1973 the pension of the armed forces was reduced from 70% to 50%.
> I did not know that the pension of the civilians was increased from 30 % to 50 %!
> I did not even know that it was the IAS which was formulating all these rules.
> The thought that it was done after the armed forces had won the 1971 war never occurred to me.
> The thought that it was done after Gen. Manekshaw, as popular as Indira Gandhi in those days, had retired never occurred to me.
> I never knew that as compensation, a bait- OROP had been dangled for the armed forces.
>
> I was not supposed to think money-I did not.
> I enjoyed the challenge posed by my beautiful love – The Seahawk—referred to as 'Flying Coffin' by some ill informed guys.
> Along the way, I lost some friends in air crashes
> It was part of the game. Money had nothing to do with it.
>
> I heard about the sailors sharing houses two/three families to a house.
> I heard about the waiting list for accommodation being one year plus everywhere.
> I did not pay attention.
> There were the three service chiefs and a host of senior officers out there to ensure that all my problems would be well looked into!
> I was happy doing my job.
> Life on board the submarines was tough, but we had tough guys to take it on.
>
> Sailing on small ships, big ships, aircraft carrier, temporary duties at short notice, no reservation in the trains-yet you manage to reach for your duty on time, no accommodation in the messes/ships-all these were part of life.
> Manage what you can. Crib about the rest if wish to. But get the work done! That was the motto.
> Life went on.
> I was happy in the service.
>
> One day I took premature retirement because I had reached the level of my inefficiency.
> The navy gracefully gave me fair amount of money.
> And I was entitled to pension-for life.
> The pension was sufficient for about 40 % of my and my family's survival needs.
> For the rest, obviously I had to work.
>
> I was 45 and fit to work for many more years.
> For the first time the thought came to my mind-if I was in civvies always- how it would have been?
> But I was too proud to feel any regret.
> The navy had looked after me well.
>
> Those Jawans/sailors and airmen who had to leave at the age of 35 or so, certainly had it tough.
> But they were all capable of making their lives again.
> We all had joined of our free will knowing the pros and cons-isn't it?
>
> That there was something like OROP- I only heard in passing.
> Never gave it a thought.
> After all if there was something that I should have got, the three service chiefs and the senior officers would have ensured that I get it!
>
> I heard about veterans returning their medals to the president's office. (The supreme Commander of the Armed Forces never had time to meet those anguished, graying men.)
> I wondered why?
>
> Then I heard a name-Dhanapalan.
> Read his story.
> The army chief had asked him to meet separately when Maj Dhanapalan asked a question about pay anomaly during one of the presentations.
> To meet separately-obviously to put him in his place.
> Dhanapalan did not go to meet him.
> Instead he went to the court after retirement.
> And court asked that he be paid some lakhs of rupees because injustice had been done to him.
>
> Individuals went to the courts.
> ESM organisations sprouted all over India.
> They merged and divided and then merged again and went to the Supreme Court.
> One day, I heard that the Supreme Court had decided that injustice had been done to me!
> And I was to be compensated monetarily for what the GOI had been cheating me of.
> My revised pension was to be given to me.
> The mirror of my faith cracked a little.
> The senior officers could not do it?
> They had no authority or insufficient will?
> What was it that had forced the retired service personnel to go to the courts?
>
> I kept hearing about agitations launched by the veterans.
> Never went for one.
>
> I was different!
> I was/am the last defence that my country has got against external threat and internal problems.
> I could not go on the streets like a common agitator!!
>
> Surely, there were other ways and other senior officers who would ensure that injustice is not done to me or those who come after me.
> I heard about a prime ministerial candidate promising OROP in 100 days of his party coming to power.
> 100 days came and went.
>
> One day my daughter castigated me not going to Jantar Mantar, where a dharna had been in progress for many days.
> She asked me, if I shall refuse the benefits which I shall be getting because of the struggle of all the veterans who were sitting on hunger strike at Jantar Mantar?
>
> Out of curiosity I went.
> Then I went again and again and again.
> And I changed!
> I learnt and am still learning.
>
> There I saw Col Inderjit Singh who first took up the OROP issue in 1982.
> He is more than eighty years old and comes everyday for the dharna in his wheel chair.
> And Satbir Singh, who has made this as the mission of his life.
> He has been ridiculed, threatened, ignored, but possesses a 'never say die spirit'.
> And a widow in her nineties-still waiting for OROP.
>
> On 26 August, Dushyant Dave, president of the Supreme Court Bar Council came with all the office bearers. They pledged support to the ESM and promised to fight for OROP on their behalf, free of cost. They assured us that the Government will not go to the court. If they did, they will lose in the third hearing.
>
> In my visits, the main thing that I learnt was that I was quite ignorant about what OROP was.
> And then the thought came to me, that there is a vast majority of ex-servicemen intent on not sullying their image by taking this route- because they are even more ignorant than I am!
> They have zero knowledge about the issues involved in OROP!
>
> An insidious thought entered my mind, "For forty one years, I and those who were before me, did not hit the streets.
> Who got us OROP?"
> The answer was a painful-No one!
> It was apathy by all concerned.
> We did not think money and the powers that be, quietly-not only denied us money but also kept downgrading the armed forces.
> And those upon whom we had been depending- were helpless!
>
> It was announced when the prime ministerial candidate faced a huge turnout of ESM at Rewari."
> Everyday there are 15 or more ESM/ladies on hunger strike at Jantar Mantar.
> Hundreds of officers and men are present there every day.
> I have seen Lieutenant Generals and senior air force officers at the dharna.
> Not many naval personnel though.
> 'OROP will be announced soon, before the Bihar elections.' They told me at Jantar Mantar.
> It was!
>
> It was announced by the defence minister before the Bihar elections were announced and after the ESM made it clear that they would go to Bihar and intensify their agitation.
> The defence minister of the country said that those who had taken VRS, will not get the benefits of OROP!
> VRS??
> It was clarified that those who had taken pre-mature retirement will not get the benefits of OROP.
> A master stroke to divide the ESM!
> But ESM retaliated by saying, "We do not leave our dead behind in war-you expect us to leave our living brethren behind!"
>
> And I learnt that at every stage, everyday new strategies were being drawn by the guys sitting in the South Block and the North Block to ensure that OROP is given with as little grace as is possible.
> The representatives of the Ex Servicemen have been called many times for discussions.
>
> During the discussions, concessions have been sought from them and obtained.
> And then the powers that be go back and include one more clause detrimental to the definition of OROP.
>
> I heard that the PM had said words to the effect that OROP was being given out of the hard earned money of the poor of this country!
> I wonder-out of whose hard earned money the MPs are paid their salaries!!
> They waste session after session- day after day complete monsoon-winter sessions are washed off without transecting any business!
> There is no mention of poor of the country paying for their callousness!
>
> I was also given to understand that the three chiefs and a select band of the senior officers along with the top babus are already under the ambit of what is called OROP for us.
> I am an ignorant man-always ready to aplogise for my lack of knowledge.
>
> At Faridabad, the PM reiterated the intention to implement OROP in it's original form. And that those who had taken pre-mature retirement will not miss out.
> They was happiness that the pre-mature retirees will get it.
> Next day there was a news item in TOI-statement by a babu-'NO they will not get it.'
> Till to date, no denial of this news item from any government source.
> Is it possible that a babu can overturn what the PM said?
> Then I tried to recollect. At no stage had the PM clearly said that
> 'ALL' the premature retirees will get it!
> The speech was worded in a way that left scope for doubt.
>
> I also learnt about seven anomalies that still need attention.
> I do not understand why this is happening?
>
> On 12 September a rally was held at Jantar Mantar.
> I went for it.
> There were thousands upon thousands veterans and ladies present.
> Was the total number 20,000/30,000?
> How does it matter!
> There were a large number of media personnel/vans present to cover the event.
> It was announced from the stage that the government had muzzled the media.
> Buses had been stopped at the border.
> No reporting of the event!
> It was not reported anywhere.
> Was the media under instructions to blow up any untoward incident at the meet!
> The demonstration has been peaceful-for more than 100days!!
>
> I am bewildered.
> Why does my own government refuse to give me what is mine (everyone in uniform)!
> Why do they refuse to give me what has been agreed to forty three years ago!
> Why do they refuse to clear-in it's original form-what has been promised by successive governments, looked in to microscopically by a parliamentary committee, agreed upon by two-all party parliament approvals, found in order by the highest court of the land and agreed to by the present government.
>
> I was/ am the last line of defence that my country has against external aggression and internal problems.
> I am different.
> I don't want to go to Jantar Mantar!

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

AS THEY SAY LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS DANGEROUS, SO LET ALL FAUJIS JUST IGNORE THE STATEMENTS BEING MADE BY THE LIKES OF MR SARABJIT , BHARAT BHUSHAN, KAPOOR ET ALL

JAI HIND

R S S SETHI.

AT THIS RATE THEY MAY SOONER OR LATER NOT HAVE A NATIONAL FLAG TO BE UNFURLED ON THE REPUBLIC OR INDEPENDENCE DAY

CHEERS TO THEIR THOUGHT PROCESS

On Tuesday, September 29, 2015, PA Kumaran <pakumaran@gmail.com> wrote:

Mr Sarbajit,

We all have to stick to a minimum level of decency when we communicate. You cannot call names or accuse someone without any credence. Whatever said and done ................... you seem to have forgotten that the Defence Forces have been seeking OROP since last 43 years. It is the bureaucrats & politicians who, on the victory of the 1971 war, presented the Defence Forces with a reduction of pension (!!!) from 70 % to 50%, where as they helped themselves with an increase of pension from 30% to 50%. So who sowed the seed ? There are innumerable such examples where in Defence Forces were let down from generation to generations. Others could go on stirke/ hartal etc - where does the fouji go ? He is pushed towards the wall.

You seem to be more obsessed with Defence Forces for getting "Pension" and that you are not getting it.

In any organisation there may by an odd person who may be a black sheep and because of him the organisation gets a bad name. You just mentioned two ...imagine in a huge organisation like Defence forces, an aberration also enquired into and the guilty punished. So let us not quote those.

Sir, going on a tangent, do you need Defence Forces at all ? Your aversion speaks all. Do you realize how dangerous the situation will be , when no one wants to join the Defence Forces. The cumulative effect of shortages in manpower will be only welcome by our adversaries . In this context where you stand ? In future, your own grand children will curse those who did not take care of the Defence Forces.

I just wanted to drive home some points. There are many more such injustices.

Suffice to say that in a democratic country like India, it is the right of the Defence Forces to fight for OROP (without diluting its contents)

Lastly, if I have hurt anyone by my utterances, it is only to highlight the injustice that is being barraged on the defence forces.

With Regards,
Col PA Kumaran (Retd)
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, Sep 27, 2015 at 6:13 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Brig Saha

It seems our veterans lose their ability to detect friend from foe
once they retire if you lot routinely dish out terms like "traitor" to
describe your channel hosts.

FYI, I am not a babu. Neither do I get any pension / salary from the Govt.

What "I" am is the poor fool who pays for all the worthless and
whining rascals hiding behind terms like patriotism and nationalism
for their greedy / selfish ends. I am the person who pays for ketchup
colonels and their fake encounters. I am the person who pays for
Adarsh Housing scams. ...

You people were paid enough for any work you allegedly did while in
service. If you couldn't save while you were in service I fail to see
why we citizens should pay for your existence and your booze once you
retire. (NB: By "you" I mean each and every person who gets a pension
- starting from our worthless MPs)

I am sure that many ordinary citizens would say much the same thing
once we leave the hypocrisy behind.

Best regards
.
Sarbajit

On 9/27/15, kashi saha <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
> Sarabjt,
> Why you donot you spk of the harm done by the your patriotic IAS super babus
> by blackmailing the Politicians. When a person joins a service with certain
> terms and conditions through Gazette notification how can it be changed to
> down grade the same in pay and pension. All veterans and those who defended
> the nation till 1971, are all pre 1973 order issued removing the OROP and
> pension quantum( 70% of last pay drawn). Those are people fighting in
> peaceful manner trying to bring sense into these people in power.
> You are asking us to fight with you( It seems from your comment you are one
> of those glorified Babu ) to bring down your self enhanced privileges, why
> is our job you deserve it or not you convince the Govt. what we are
> interested is a parity you increase yours increase ours too. You do not do
> any thing extra to contribute to the nation. You do your bit and we do our
> bit. If you fail we take on the job even if it is messed up so that the
> nation do not suffer. and if we fail in our job you can only suck your
> thumb. What you IAS/IFS and Political Nexus have done so far:
> 1. In 1971,You messed up the with your foreign policy with Bangladesh after
> the liberation. And it is a thorn on our back, a small helmet for terrorist
> and entry point of CFCurrency and terrorist . A proactive policy could have
> avoided all this
> 2. After 1971 You messed up with your policy against Pak even after we had
> handed over a trophy of more than 90K Pak POW., you could have bargained all
> our POW and POK.
> 3. In 1947 You messed up the Kashmir by asking us to Ceasefire when we were
> in the verge of taking over now so called POK
> 4. Twice we took over Strategic passes in Kashmir you forced us to hand them
> over now the Chinese with their armed forces have a strategic road to PAK.
> 5. Srilanka you created a problem and now we are loosing it to China.
> 6. Myanmar oil pipeline to China again failed in your foreign policy.
> 7. Internally Naxal, NE interstate relationship, sharing of water allocation
> of development fund and projects , you failed every where.
> Why IAS?? to protected constitution at national interest irrespective of
> party in power, advise the politicians who are masses rep against
> unconstitutional, antinational actions. Look into your self are doing that.
> How can any one justify subsidized food for the MPs, pensions with OROP
> principle for the MP with even one election win, There are few Khemkas and
> Chatuvedis but majority of you are self serving un patriot, with yes sir
> attitude for kushy transfer Children studying abroad and after 60 years Apex
> scale pension and member of a commission.
> You are the traitors and need to be sorted out not the politicians.
> Jai Hind Brigadier Kashi Nath Saha Mob: 9810728364 Email:
> knsaha44@yahoo.com

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