Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

Thanks. Most of the suggestions are good. Persons selected for the IAS are competent and can do the job quite well but incompetent and crooked politicians controlling them are bad in their thinking and actions resulting in bad and crooked governance. We people must reform; "Care for your Sisters, Live clean, Think honest, Do honest, each on of us." Politicians, Bureaucracy, Police, the Aam Admi. This country of capable people will move ahead of all . Jai Hind !-------Regards, Hirak Nag.
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 11/8/15, Harbhajan Singh <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:

Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Tuesday, 11 August, 2015, 5:02 PM

Dear
Gaur,
Your last
sentence sums it up. It is in our genes dear!! A nation gets
the government it deserves!!!
Best wishes.
Harbhajan


From: Gaur J K
<gaurjk@hotmail.com>
To:
"indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
<indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Monday,
10 August 2015 1:54 PM
Subject: RE:
[IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down




10/8/15
Dear Sir,
I agree with most of your
observations.Those who have seen , Yes Minister ,
serial would know how the bureaucracy works even in Britain,
the mother of all modern democracies.I was
reading Max Muller,s " What India can teach us"or
what we can learn from India . It is a series of lectures he
had delivered for the ICS Aspirants and says if any country
can be compared to Paradise on earth, it is India. He calls
Sanskrit as the mother of all languages and VEDAS the
unparalled contribution to the human
civilisation. Today if you utter the word
Sanskrit, you are immediately labelled as Saffron Brigade.
The VEDAS are labelled as outpourings of primitive
people.So today when we criticise everything- the
IAS or Judiciary we tend to forget what we were at the time
of independence. There are serious shortcomings in matters
of all governance and we have to improve through whatever
means are available to the Civil
Society. The major blame lies with the
political class- the Parliament and the State Assemblies-
whether as legislative bodies or governing bodies as
Ministers. Ministers are mostly political appointees with no
experience of governance, They can neither contribute nor
control the bureaucracy-the top rung being the
IAS.Sometimes I wonder if we as a slave nation
for 1000years have  forgotten the skills of Governaace
.Corruption has always been an issue otherwise
Prevention of corruption Act of 1947 would have not been
passed immediately after independence.Regds
JKGaur 

Date: Wed, 5 Aug
2015 00:14:47 +0530
From: ddchop47@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

It is incorrect to generalise that all of IAS
is dishonest or corrupt.We as a people get carried
away, indulge in generalisations without reason.
India has run, good, bad indifferent -- the
country has been developing on account of at least more than
half of the officers doing their bit, by you &
i. 
We get carried away; do we ever consider what
were we like during the first 10 years after our
Independence ? i am now running 82, and have seen much of
our land and people. (Always worked with NGOs, refugees,
leprosariums, rural development, etc., etc.) Large parts of
our country and people are perhaps the poorest --- and it is
not easy to deal with 1.23 billion.
Our politicians have corrupted our bureaucracy --
that is true. The IAS types, whoever slipped among them have
given a bad name to their service & undercut their goals
and objectives.
Strict and better + honest supervision can still
re-coup what appears to be a major loss to the ones who have
written totally against this 'STEEL FRAME OF SORTS"
!
Let us not undo or undercut what can be improved
plus made more effective by recruiting, through stiff tests
the professionals etc. who can make the service relevant to
the needs of India in the 21 st century. That is create more
open competition from the private sector and bring in those
who are concerned with sanitation, water supply, energy,
etc. etc.
India has a great future, as long as we do not
undo the democratic processes we have got used to in the
past 7 decades. We must reform the police service in the
length and breadth of our country. Not under-cut our ideals
by leaving it all to the p;oliticians in the States
concerned !
dev chopra in gurgaon***
 
On 2 August 2015 at
20:00, Vishwanath Mada <vishmada@hotmail.com>
wrote:



Yes 
I would say Honestly. They are turning to be terrarist
rather than honest administrators like their earlier
colleagues. These people compete to make how much others
made and out pass each one of
them.
Every public sector organization and other
companies they have tried to control some how.  With
the result they do not allow other than their clan to
function effectively.
Time to shut down with the experience of handling
them by the Polititions and the publlic at
large.
Even it is time the JDICIARY is brought to
accountability at all cost. Increase the number of days they
work in a year like any other organization. British have
left but britishholidays are still persisting
with all might. Recruitment should at all level of JUDGES
must be purely on merit and no reservation of any kind.
Every JUDGEMENT must be re assessed to the
merit of of the case presented and the arguments must be
studied. Back logs must be cleared. No date after date. It
has to be reexamined why it was necessary to
grant date.
Case must be presented in a brief form for the
JUDGE to understand the frame work of the case.
ThanksVishwanath
MadaExecutive PresidentMaharashtra
State Human Rights Centrecell. no.
9892356549

Date: Sat, 25 Jul 2015 15:34:51 +0800
From: hiraknag@yahoo.co.in
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
CC: genharbhajansingh@yahoo.com;
gaurjk@hotmail.com
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

IAS being ill treated by politicians. So who ill-treats
the politicians, the Aam Admi. So who ill-treats the Aam
Admi, the IAS. The IAS is ill-treated-----Its a circular
thing, never, ending !-----------Hirak.
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 21/7/15, John Philipose <gigijohn8263@googlemail.com>
wrote:

Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Cc: "Harbhajan Singh" <genharbhajansingh@yahoo.com>,
"Gaur J K" <gaurjk@hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, 21 July, 2015, 7:06 AM

Dear Pranab- though I
agree that 50% of these guys are ill treated by the
politicians- most of them deserve it in any case! However
that should not give a license to 50 % of these blokes to
misbehave and indulge in large scale curroption. It is a
known fact that the greatest hindrance to Governance in
this
country is the Government. They need to be packed off
lock,
stock & barrel. Instead technocrats should take over
Governance. The Agriculculture Secretary could well be one
from the department or the Agricultural university, after
being specialised in Administration for a couple of years.
An IPS guy should be the Home secretary, IFS (forest) guy
the Forest secretary, Military officer the Defence
Secretary, a Scientist with Administrative experience as
the
Scientific Advisor & so on. The IAS should be
disbanded
in the next deccade.
On Sat, Jul 18, 2015
at 10:12 AM, Pranab Kumar Chakravarty <pranabkumar.chakravarty@gmail.com>
wrote:
I am a senior journalist and have worked in
several states besides covering assignments for my
 media
 in many states and at the Center. I am constrained to
say
that I say with my own eyes how the bureaucrats are
treated
shabbily by their political masters and I will not advise
any one remotely related to me to aspire to become an IAS
or
IPS officer.Bureaucrats in some states are forced to
touch the feet of their political bosses to keep them
happy
since they write their annual CRs  I am told that IAS
and
IPS officers have their forums at state and national
levels.I like many of you  wonder why they keep mum
when
some officers of their cadre are inhumanly treated
.You may be more knowledgeable about me .And
hence, I  ask you if you will advise your
academically
brilliant daughters and sons to become bureaucrats to be
treated like slaves ? Please do not accuse me of creating
rift between political class and bureaucrats. They do have
an important role to play in serving the people.What I
EMPHASIZE IS THAT THERE SHOULD BE A CODE OF CONDUCT ON THE
DAY TO DAY FUNCTIONING AND RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE TWO
IMPORTANT STAKEHOLDERS FOR THE TRANSPARENT AND SMOOTH
FUNCTIONING OF OUR DEMOCRATIC WAY OF LIFE.
On 17 July 2015 at
11:24, Vidyut <wide.aware@gmail.com>
wrote:
There are problems with the IAS, there are
problems with politicians. Alas, controlling each other is
rarely about public interest. Perhaps I am cynical, but I
don't think there are any magic fixes. Boring as it
seems without a quick pill, I think it is going to take
alert citizens relentlessly demanding accountability,
scrutinizing and curbing every wrong that comes to
light.
I think people consider the government or
bureaucracy more like a service that ought to be perfect
or
you will call up customer service. Alas, in a democracy,
the
final boss is the citizen and it may be like herding cats,
but in the end of the day, they will have to keep an eye
on
their employees and reward, punish or remove as
necessary.
The most important thing is to mobilize people.
Not go one morcha or andolan or against one bad guy, but
in
the spirit of vigilant and involved management of their
own
country.
Perfection is a convenient mirage that allows
people to shruf off their own role on the stage. The only
hope is continuous improvement.
Vidyut
Vidyut
Social
Media: Twitter Facebook Google+ Diaspora

Blogs: Intellectual
Anarchy || personal || Nisarga || tech || Homeschooling ||
Fek
Le

On Fri, Jul 17, 2015
at 10:19 AM, Jagjit Ahuja <jagjit.ahuja@gmail.com>
wrote:
You
may like to go through the appended write up written by an
IAS officer  . Though it is long but worth reading
 . I have read every word
 but found that he has not analyzed  as to who
has been
responsible for  bringing such a state of affair of
our
country. 
It is my
feeling that the so called Steel Frame of the country, the
bureaucratic set up is responsible . This gets confirmed
when  we analyze  working of our governing system
after
independence. It has  been the bureaucrats who kept
on
grabbing all the powers by be-fooling both the politicians
and the public by twisting the rules to meet the
requirements of the people whom they wanted to
help.
Such
a situation would have never creeped in our governing
system
had  they  been fair to all with  the
authority and the
powers they were enjoying .All these years the
Joint Secretary of a Ministry  is considered
as the
Government. 

Please
advise if I am wrong in my analyses.
Brig J S
Ahuja
On Thu, Jul 16, 2015
at 11:17 AM, Harbhajan Singh <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
wrote:
My
Dear Gaur,
How are you?

I wonder if this topic is discussed in the
NDC!!!!!
We require Administrative and political reforms.
But dear Gaur all the Governments are being managed by the
IAS!!! Does any one think IAS would let any such reforms
take place and above all be implemented!! Just look at
OROP
case!!!

We need a military/Presidential take over for two
years in which the agenda should be administrative and
political reforms and then hand over the reigns back to
the
new dispensation. I agree it is an Utopian idea but if we
need to achieve some thing such ideas have to come
up.
My considered view is that India is going to go
down the drain and China-Pak combine will subjugate us in
a
decade or two may be. Things on the ground for common
people
including our types are very bad indeed and deteriorating
fast.

Harbhajan SinghLt Gen


From: Gaur J K
<gaurjk@hotmail.com>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
<indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>

Sent:
Tuesday, 14 July 2015 3:26 PM
Subject: RE:
[IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down




13/7/15
Yes, but will it not be a piece-meal
change?Our whole system of governance is based on
the colonial british model.Our judicial system is
based on the same.Our laws are based on the same.
Some laws are as old as 1860 just after it was taken over
by
the Imperial power.
Our Constitution is primarily drawing upon the British
Model. Yet the realisation that changes are
needed in the institutions of Governance should lead to
the
desired changes sooner or later.Hiring of
experts/advisors outside the IAS system could be one way
to
dilute their dominance. Mr. Modi seems to have realised
and
doing so in some areas.JKGaur
From: dhiranil@hotmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 23:15:59 +0530
Subject: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down










Forwarding as received, for it makes a lot of
sense, sharing this article specially with those among us,
who love welfare of our Society, our Armed Forces, and
above
all, our country as a whole.  It is an open fact that
they
are also the creator of the problem that is existing and
around the widely known subject matter as OROP issue
!Anil Dhir

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 19:34:09 +0530
Subject: Fwd: It's time to shut the IAS down
From: 
To:


It's time to shut
the IAS
down                    (
A forward as received) Last updated on: June
08, 2015 13:17
ISTThe IAS distrusts
outsiders bringing change, the product of being a tenured
cadre; it worships authority rather than citizenship, the
legacy of being lackeys of the Queen-Emperor -- and it
admires itself above all, for no reason that the rest of
us
can discern. Mihir S Sharma explains.If Prime
Minister
Narendra Modi fails to live up to the expectations that he
has raised, it will not be entirely his
fault.After all, he has
moderated his promises.The shining vision
of India's future he outlined in early 2014 has been
replaced by the -- still inspiring -- set of aspirations
listed in the 2015
Budget.A house for everyone
by 2022, with 24-hour power, clean drinking water, a road
and modern sanitation; one job per family, medical and
skilling facilities close by, and much else of that
nature.You cannot fault his
targets, and you cannot fault his
energy.If he seems to have
little idea of how to get there, well, he was never asked
for such details about implementation on the campaign
trail,
so it's a little late to complain
now.The problem is that
he is trying to drive the country to these oh-so-distant
targets by 2022, but he still has the same old car with
which to do it.Today, in the middle
of 2015, it is doubly, triply, quadruply clear that
changing
the driver was not enough -- the driver was never the
biggest, the realest problem. The real problem is the
car.Modi might have the
will, the energy, the sincerity and the ambition. But
unless
he fundamentally changes the system that implements his
will, that realises his ambition, he is doomed to
fail.And that system is
the Indian government and its bureaucracy. I want you to
pause for a moment to think, as objectively as you can,
about how farcical it is.We, the world's
fastest-growing economy and its largest democracy, have a
state structure basically unchanged from the extractive
system set up to rule a vast, pastoral country on behalf
of
a distant island nation.We have a twice-born
bureaucracy that holds so much
power.Why? Because they
are the happy inheritors of a system in which civil
servants
would have been loyal to Queen and Whitehall, but
ministers
may have been dangerously nationalist -- and thus needed
to
be easily vetoed or
blocked.We still have a
tenured, generalist civil service, organised on Victorian
public-school principles, even as our economy and
governance
become fiendishly more
complex.Every single foreign
investor, foreign do-gooder, foreign diplomat, is
astounded
by both the intelligence of their Indian bureaucratic
interlocutor and their -- much of the time -- complete and
utter ignorance of the issues at
hand.What else can you
expect?The person having to
deal with FIIs today may have been dealing with water
harvesting yesterday.No matter how high
your rank in a deadly dull competitive examination in the
early 1980s, you will not handle that transition
seamlessly.It is natural,
therefore, that you take no risks and show no imagination;
you are, after all, always a step behind those you are
regulating or governing.It is less natural that
you are incredibly arrogant even while being that step
behind. (Or to suppose that anyone else in government
being
paid more than you would be a colossal, extraordinary
insult
to the Indian Republic, equivalent to Bangladesh annexing
most of Eastern India. Imagine if a tax expert or a lawyer
was hired from the private sector and paid more than the
Cabinet Secretary! The whole edifice of government would
collapse! Anarchy would rule! Four southern states would
sink into the sea! Etc,
etc)We have an
un-fire-able, unaccountable civil service, which can screw
up as much as it likes -- consider, for example, the
monumental error that was the FII-MAT (minimum alternate
tax) imbroglio -- and still will face no
consequences.This is the largest
cause of the institutionalised mediocrity that holds this
country back. Even promotions are largely dependent on
seniority and not record; nobody would run any other
organisation thus, but it's OK to run a complicated,
under-governed country like
this?Ah, we are told, but
insulating administrators is necessary to ensure they are
not subject to politicisation -- to ensure they are
"independent".This laughable claim
can only be the product of wilfully refusing to actually
read even one newspaper headline over the past 20
years.Who can claim that
bureaucrats are not politicised, given contemporary
history?
How many have simply refused to sign what they are
supposed
to? There are some such glorious names, but vanishingly
few.Combine these three
factors, and you have a government machinery that is
unaccountable, under-informed, and all-powerful. It lacks
creativity. It automatically stifles innovation (witness
the
colossal idiocy underlying its shutdown of Uber in the
capital).There is no alternative
but to shut these people down. Root-and-branch reform,
beginning with an end to the imperial-era privileges of
the
Indian Administrative
Service.The IAS distrusts
outsiders bringing change, the product of being a tenured
cadre; it worships authority rather than citizenship, the
legacy of being lackeys of the Queen-Emperor -- and it
admires itself above all, for no reason that the rest of
us
can discern.The prime minister,
sadly, agrees with that.He, too, seems to
imagine that his transformative promises can be
operationalised and implemented by the same people who
have
failed us for 70 years.His first action on
entering 7, Race Course Road, was to tell the secretaries
to
the Union that they could speak to him directly, cutting
out
their ministers.Subsequently he took
over all appointments. This is in a way natural; when Modi
was appointed chief minister of Gujarat, he had no
experience of -- or history of interest in --
policy.Guess who he turned
to? Perhaps that's why the bureaucrats other Indians
see
as obstructive, backward-looking monuments to
institutional
arrogance are seen by our prime minister as gentle tutors
in
the art of governance.This is a pity,
since the only way he will actually transform India is by
first transforming its hopelessly out-of-date
government.Actually, if Prime
Minister Narendra Modi fails to live up to the
expectations
that he has raised, it will be entirely his fault. He
should
have started by ending the
IAS.




























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