dhingra ji, you have stated the present condition about the fauji veterans. As Ravindran sir has said correctly, most officers always keep JCOs/ORs and equal ranks of airforce and navy in their mind but some time some selfish one makes it looks otherwise. lets keep united. i have seen IESM officers always taking up the cause of all ex-faujis equally, rather more for JCOs/ORs/widows. its democratic movement.
Its the 1973, when down grading of defence personnel started. Unfortunately the Officers who dealt with every pay commission matters since 1973, the Army/navy/air force HQs in Delhi have failed to ensure that faujis get their dues correctly and in time, because they ignored the law/regulations did not apply them, and accepted the ministry letters to prevail over the law/pension regulations. Those defence officers only read and signed blindly on papers given to them by the civilian babus posted(by MoD) under them. Its happening even to day. The 3 DPAs are still arrogant and do not want to even listen us, who wants to give them feed back or show the mistakes in documents created deliberately by the civilian babus. most DPAs officers even do not know the authority of statutory regulations over govt. letters. most do not even know how a statutory regulation is made. Worst is that some AFT/courts take ministry letters as authority over regulations. Then how does a law abiding fauji get justice. To day faujis are treated as beggars and slaves. rgds. beniwalg@ymail.com
From: Ravindran P M <pmravindran@gmail.com>
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Tuesday, 30 July 2013 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] India's ex-servicmens apex body IESM splits over corruption charges
regards n bw
ravi
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Its the 1973, when down grading of defence personnel started. Unfortunately the Officers who dealt with every pay commission matters since 1973, the Army/navy/air force HQs in Delhi have failed to ensure that faujis get their dues correctly and in time, because they ignored the law/regulations did not apply them, and accepted the ministry letters to prevail over the law/pension regulations. Those defence officers only read and signed blindly on papers given to them by the civilian babus posted(by MoD) under them. Its happening even to day. The 3 DPAs are still arrogant and do not want to even listen us, who wants to give them feed back or show the mistakes in documents created deliberately by the civilian babus. most DPAs officers even do not know the authority of statutory regulations over govt. letters. most do not even know how a statutory regulation is made. Worst is that some AFT/courts take ministry letters as authority over regulations. Then how does a law abiding fauji get justice. To day faujis are treated as beggars and slaves. rgds. beniwalg@ymail.com
From: Ravindran P M <pmravindran@gmail.com>
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Tuesday, 30 July 2013 12:59 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] India's ex-servicmens apex body IESM splits over corruption charges
I share JWO Ashok Dhingra's emotions. But one thing I can assure him that the armed forces officers have been more considerate about the welfare of their juniors than the civilians. In fact in civil it is only the IAS cadre looking after themselves. The subordinates have trade unions and so they have been able to extract their pound of flesh too. But in the end it is the public who have suffered because in civil nobody does any work that they are paid to do. Today only I was reading on FB that a lady had to bribe the police for getting autopsy done on her brother who had died and then again the hospital staff for his death certificate! And to a large extent our officers and men have together performed their tasks commendably. A lot of our problems can be traced to our chiefs not putting on their weight behind our causes because of the post retirement sinecures dangled by the corrupt politicians. Anyhow all of us are wiser now and we have seen IESM exercising their organisational right to remove its founder Chairman when it was seen that he was not performing.
There is another thing that I want to highlight before signing off. The PBOR have some unjust baises against the officers. Possibly it is because the work environment have forced the officers to be more strict than diplomatic in their ways. And when you look to the other side of the fence and look at the couldn't care less attitude of the civilian subordinate staff this sense of persecution can get worse too. But honestly the officers are as much victims as the PBOR themselves. We have seen how Admiral Bhagvat was removed as CNS! And how VK Singh was denied justice even by the apex court of the country in a simple case of date of birth for which the law and norms are very well established! Simply put soldiers are treated like slaves- whether officers or not! And it is high time that we recognised the real issues that have led to our fall and resolved them rather than be at each other's throats while the criminals outside have the last laugh!ravi
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 10:55 PM, ASHOK DHINGRA <dhingra1949@gmail.com> wrote:
CARRY ON DOING THE SAME AND FIND WORST OF LIFE FOR YOUR SELVESBUT STILL POORS ENJOY LIFE MORE THAN RICH AND FEEL MORE HAPPY THAN THEMLIKE THIS WE THE HUMANES HAVE MADE THIS EARTH HELL WHICH WAS CREATED AS HEAVENGOD HELP THESE OFFICERS WHO WANTS ALL THE WAYSOROP IS ALSO BEING PROPOSED TO GET BENEFITS FOR OFFICERS BY REDUCING PAY SCALES OF PBOR ,SPECIALLY OF JCO, BECAUSE OF WHAT NO BENEFIT TO JCO IN THE LATEST ORDERS BECAUSE THEIR PAY SCALES NOT UP GRADED LIKE EVEN SEPOYS, SO IS PROMOTIONS NOT EQUAL TO OFFICERS OFFICERS WHERE AS SEPOY DOES DUTY IN SO MUCH HARDSHIP WHICH NO OFFICER GETSIN ALL EVERY BODY IN POWER TRIES TO LOOK AFTER FOR HIMSELVES , NOT EVEN BY WHOSE VOTES HE HAS ATTAINED THAT POWER, THEN HOW HE WILL GET RESPECT, ONLY GOD CAN TELLNO ORGANISATION TOOK UP ACTION, NOT EVEN DGRSAME WAY I HAD SUBMITTED THIS ALONG WITH MY FATHER CASE WHO IS GETTING LESS PENSION SANCTIONED IN1965 THAN DOUBLE SERVICE IN HIGHER POST TODAY AS WELL AS MY UNCLE PENSION CASE OF NAVY TO IESL WHIVH WENT IN DUST BIN UNACTIONED TILL TODAYBUT OFFICER STARTED GETTING RANK PAY BUT DID NOT EVEN THINK OF EVEN FORWARDING OUR WRITTEN POINTS TO HIGHER UPSOUR GCB PAY HAD BEEN STOPPED ONCE ON WHICH WE USED TO GET PENSION BEFORE 1986 PChe is known by IESM TOP BOSSES since we both are members too , and he was appriciated even by media that general does not have that much knowledge like a sepoy at the time of dharna at CP for OROP while handing over medals by IESMlike wise my father , me and my son have bitter experiences in life of what our commissioned officers, even recently on of our veteran have been told by government officials that our officers are always talking about themselves, no one speaks about PBOR'next meeting of the central members, i submitted that it is of air force officers association not of airmans, hence it should be in two parts one of officers wing, second of an airmen and president of an airmen wing should be the airman and representation should be as per numbers of ranks because all officers were discussing their pay and status before and then but did not give any heed to the point given by me an airman, son of an havildar clk/gd now advocate of high court and nephew of a sailor and active since 1973 pay commission when injustice was done with me being a corporal with civilians in my unit pay scales and then also my points not forwarded to higher ups, besides my annual assessment lowered from excellent to satisfactory, two steps lower without any reasonsThis is in each & every organisation, when i joined INDIAN AIR FORCE as an AIRMAN IN 1966 , had found that even a sepoy had regard which now general, even president do not have, do you can think why so change? because our officers did not behave like they should have behaved like officer like qualities and respecting those who respect them to be their officer laedersone of the example of mine , i was elected member of AIR FORCE ASSOCIATION but not allowed to speak /see m even files of that association being JWO and air marshell nominated by president the retired chief of air force to whom in the meeting i had given three points to be included in the recommendation for 5th pay commission but not a single point was farwarded and on my asking him , he replied that they have in the last line submitted that they have added they agree to the suggessions of all others associations, then i spoke that sir i m not from any other association, i m elected member of the association and sir ur nominated one
On Sun, Jul 28, 2013 at 1:46 PM, capt beniwal <trident142@yahoo.co.in> wrote:Let the Organisation march on regardless . individuals will come and go. just keep the enemy in mind always and jaichands away.
From: Jagjit Ahuja <jagjit.ahuja@gmail.com>
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Saturday, 27 July 2013 8:49 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] India's ex-servicmens apex body IESM splits over corruption charges
It is very sad.and has become almost part of our culture . Why blame any one though it was expected from our committed bureaucracy to break us.May god grant wisdom to usBrig J S Ahuja
On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 8:23 PM, India News <indianewsco@gmail.com> wrote:India's ex-servicmens apex body IESM splits over corruption charges
IESM GOVERNING BODY TERMINATES THE PRIMARY MEMBERSHIP OF LT GEN RAJ KADYANIndia's Ex-Service Men's apex body (IESM) has split over corruption charges with bitter emails being exchanged from all sides.2 emails circulated from its blog and by its General Secretary are reproduced below to show the extent of the divide:26 Jul 2013.Dear Veterans,Jai Hind.Dear Members,I am deeply pained to circulate the email below, received from Gp Capt VK Gandhi, Secretary General IESM.However, the action taken by the IESM Governing Body is correct and it should have been taken long time ago.Governing Body IESM continued to persuade Lt Gen Kadyan to mend his ways but, due to his ulterior motives and some carrot hanging somewhere, he continued on the course adopted by him to destroy IESM.Five years ago Lt Gen Raj Kadyan and Maj Gen Satbir Singh with increasingly very large support from ESM located from North to South of India from East to West of India, started IESM with great josh and efforts. Rightly, within six months of its raising IESM became a force to reckon.While many other ESM organisation have been working hard and are still working hard to resolve problems of ESM and families, but the approach adopted by IESM made greater success in a short time.The UPA Government became visibly scared of the ways of operations of IESM. Many requests, directly and indirectly came to IESM saying don't do this or that – IESM carried on fearlessly.UPA Government has been looking for ways and means to destroy IESM as it destroyed many other movements. IESM leadership stood firmly against such attempts till one of its stalwarts saw some very attractive carrot hanging in front of him. This happened about two years ago.For over two years I have been receiving very reliable information from many sources that Kadyan has been given a specific task to achieve. His behaviour in the IESM Governing Meetings was also confirming those inputs. I warned many senior members of IESM about it – but they would not believe me.The true colours of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan became apparent to the Governing Body IESM in Dec 2012. The story beyond Dec 2012 has been well related by Gp Capt Gandhi in his email below.Kadyan is playing very dirty trick of creating a divide among the officers, JCOs and OR among the ESM and families with a view to destroy their joint power to fight against injustice by the UPA Government and thus quickly reach the carrot hanging in front of him.I am very sure that with the expulsion of Lt Gen Kadyan major hurdles in the way of IESM are out. IESM have the will power and resources and with help from you all – IESM will be able to come over the hurdles that Kadyan will now openly generate to ensure that he receives the carrot promised to him by highly placed personalities.A sad day in the history of ESM and families of India.Please remember with support from you ALL, IESM will regain its lost ground. So go all out to support IESM.JAI BHARAT – JAI JAWAN.In service of Indian Military Veterans & FamiliesChander KambojandFrom : Vinod Gandhi (vk_gandhi@yahoo.com)To : indianveterans (indianveterans@yahoogroups.com); IESM GROUP (iesm_group@googlegroups.com)Dear MembersBy now you must be aware that all is not well in IESM. It is my duty to keep facts in front of all members so that members can make their own opinion. At the outset I ask for your patience for a bit long mail but I cannot help since I want to bring all facts in-front of veteransIESM has been in operation since last five years. The accounts of IESM had been regularly audited and presented to all veterans every year in AGM. All queries raised by veterans are answered satisfactorily. Lt Gen Raj Kadyan had been signing the balance sheet for the last five years and had never raised any objection. Monthly income and expenditure statements are being made as per rules and are available in the office for all to check. Lt Gen Raj Kadyan had access to all accounts as all other members of GB and all members of IESM. GB IESM invites all veterans to come and check the accounts which are available in the office. GB had not agreed to put the accounts on the website as demanded by Lt Gen Raj Kadyan as GB felt that Internet is not a safe medium such sensitive information. Any constructive suggestion would be taken and incorporated in the accounting procedure. Yes IESM Gov Body had refused to pay the transportation charges of veterans who came from Jhajjhar for casting their votes and attending the AGM on 2 Dec 2012, as it is against the rules of the AGM and elections. This has probably infuriated Lt Gen Raj Kadyan because he had to pay Rs 18000/ from his pocket to these veterans who were called by him to vote for him and his candidates. Accounts of IESM are being kept as per rules and will be projected for scrutiny of all members in coming AGM planned on 20 Oct 2013 at AVCC Sector 37 Noida.The problem in IESM started about two years back when members of GB pointed out to the Lt Gen Raj Kadyan that he had been visiting Defense Minister all alone and then issuing Sitreps to the environment. GB members advised Lt Gen Raj Kadyan on many occasions that it must be delegation of IESM who should meet the RM and other officials to present the problems of veterans. Lt Gen Raj Kadyan refused this simple request and termed those meeting as his personal meetings and confirmed that he meets RM for many problems and also discusses the IESM issues and he would continue meeting him alone. We all know the outcome of these meetings! I can say with conviction that veterans and widows were not benefited in any way. But he continued visiting RM by himself and kept mentioning it in Sitreps. This issue was considered too insignificant to bring to the notice of environment. However GB members communicated their opposition to the stand of Lt Gen Kadyan. Veterans noticed the slant towards praise of the Govt in Sitreps in last few months and discussed with GB members. Many veterans expressed their apprehensions that this change in the outlook of Sitreps is not a healthy sign for our fight for Justice and OROP.GB members had been discussing in meetings that IESM delegation must meet three the chiefs of armed forces and explain to them problems of veterans so that Armed Force HQs understand our problems and veterans would know the stand of HQs on veterans' issues. Lt Gen Kadyan kept steam rolling this suggestion and refused to meet the three Chiefs. Then, suddenly one day he informed the GB that he had met the CNS. GB members questioned about this visit and asked why did he visit CNS alone? He had no reply and gave flimsy reasons that there was no time to inform any GB member.Sometimes in April 12 Army HQs informed Maj Gen Satbir Singh, Vice Chairman IESM, that a rally of veterans has been organized in village Palra in Jhajjhar dist on 16 May 12. COAS Gen VK Singh would address the veterans in the rally. The issue was discussed by the GB and a decision was taken that IESM will wholeheartedly only take part in the rally and would ensure a very large gathering for the rally. To the utter surprise of GB, Lt Gen Kadyan vehemently opposed participation of IESM and veterans in the rally. GB members over-ruled (single dissention) his objection and decided that IESM will lend full support to the rally as this rally would bring many- fold advantages to the veterans. Veterans would get a chance to meet COAS and explain their problems first hand and, veterans would get to sort out their pension problems and ECHS problems as Army HQs had arranged all specialists to attend to the problems of veterans, Lt Gen Raj Kadyan continued opposing IESM participation and even published in newspapers and asked veterans to boycott the rally. Lt Gen Kadyan even gave statements against the then COAS Gen VK Singh that he was using this rally to build up his image. This statement of Lt Gen Kadyan against Gen VK Singh was shocking and to say the least vey shameful. He went a step ahead and threatened GB members that he would not sanction any funds for the rally. It was surprising to hear this from the Chairman. IESM did not spend any funds on this rally. The rally was a huge success and veterans were a happy lot to mingle with the brother soldiers and felt elated. Many veterans could resolve their pension problems as CDA officials were present to provide instant replies. On the day of the rally, Lt Gen Raj Kadyan suddenly decided to attend the rally and insisted that he would speak on behalf of IESM. Army authorities had by then sensed the real intent of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan that he would use his position and create disturbance in the rally. He was not permit him to speak. Later on it was revealed that intelligence inputs had indicated that Lt Gen Raj Kadyan came to malign the rally and speak against the then COAS Gen VK Singh. It was not difficult to put the two and two together of his real intent. Lt Gen Raj Kadyan was well known to speak against Gen VK Singh in every TV interview and used all his vocabulary to speak against Gen VK Singh. He was using his position to make a constituency for himself and make his image on the TV shows.GB members smelled the rat and advised Lt Gen Raj Kadyan to avoid misusing his position but he did not heed to the advice. Even the 'MOA' of IESM clearly lays down that decision in the GB meetings will be taken by 'Majority' view. Lt Gen Raj Kadyan continued disregarding the majority decision of the GB. Many a times it was pointed out in GB meeting and decision taken by GB was recorded that decision taken by GB would be final and all must abide by the decision. His continuous disregard and willful defiance of GB decisions had started troubling GB members.IESM announced a grand rally on 1 Dec 2012 and AGM and election to GB on 2 December 12. The rally was attended by more than 5000 veterans from 14 states. Many speakers expressed their views. Vice Chairman spoke about the achievements and future plans of IESM. It was surprising to hear Chairman Lt Gen Raj Kadyan speak against the official thinking of the IESM to the audience. The issues brought out by Lt Gen Raj Kadyan surprised all and brought out the differences in the GB in open. Surprisingly Lt Gen Raj Kadyan did not deem it necessary to discuss the issues with GB members before bringing it out in public glare thus lowering the image of IESM in the eyes of veterans.Brig OP Marwaha and Col VK Sekhri were requested to conduct the election of IESM GB planned for 2 Dec 12. The team had conducted the previous elections of IESM in 2010 and were regarded very fair in conducting elections. 24 nomination papers were received by the election team (Five for the appointments in GB and 19 for the post of member GB). Election team found mistakes in many forms and approved only 11 nomination forms for the post of member GB. Lt Gen Raj Kadyan met Chief election Officer and attempted to influence him in favor of four contestants. Chief Election Officer confirmed to him that he would conduct the elections as per rules of Election Commission and prevalent traditions. The results were announced as the approved nomination papers were less than the vacancies in the GB. Lt Gen Raj Kadyan announced to the audience that he was not in agreement with the elections and he suggested re-elections thus creating disturbance in the meeting. He also once again touched upon the issues which had till then not been discussed in the GB. Lt Gen Kadyan thus once again brought the differences in the GB to the public without even discussing in the GB. Four contestants whose nomination papers were rejected by the Chief Election Officer then sent representation to the Registrar Societies, Haryana Chandigarh. The Registrar Societies had fixed 4 Apr 12 as date of hearing. Chairman Lt Gen Raj Kadyan and Gen Sec Gp Capt VK Gandhi were respondents in the complaint. Governing Body IESM took a decision that the IESM would be represented by Maj Gen AJB Jaini, Gp Capt VK Gandhi and Cdr SS Ahuja and no other member will attend the hearing on 4 Apr 12 from IESM. This decision was communicated to Lt Gen Raj Kadyan who had not attended the meeting in which this decision was taken. He not only attended the hearing, against the resolution of GB, but also argued in favor of the petitioners. This action on part of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan brought in open his plan to induct some members who would take his side in GB meetings and he would be able to get his views through the GB. This is for the information of veterans that Gov Body had sensed a tilt in favor of Govt in the behavior of Lt Gen Raj Kadyan. GB members were therefore very critical of his suggestions and most of his suggestions were over-ruled with only one vote in favor of his suggestion and rest voting against his opinion. This is probably the reason that Lt Gen Kadyan wanted to fill the GB with his YES men but failed because of mistakes on the part of his men in filling the forms. Director Societies in his order has asked IESM to amend the MOA and increase strength of GB members from present 17 to 21 with a view to accommodate the four complainants. IESM has already formed a committee to amend the MOA and is planning to bring the amendments in the forthcoming AGM.Lt Gen Kadyan has now called for Emergency General Meeting (EGM) on 28 July 12 without discussing the matter in the GB. There is no provision in the MOA of the IESM for Chairman to call for an EGM. IESM had already planned the AGM on 20 Oct 12 and is in the process of announcing to the environment. It is therefore difficult to understand the urgency of the EGM when regular AGM has already been planned on 20 Oct unless there is an ulterior motive of forcibly taking over control of GB. It is not difficult to notice the powers working behind this move. IESM has become a thorn in the eyes of Govt because Govt has not done justice with the veterans. This is the only to put brakes on the activities of IESM. Therefore, this meeting has been declared illegal by IESM.In view of constant defiance of GB decisions by Lt Gen Kadyan, and specially attending the hearing in the office of The Registrar Societies on 4 April 12 totally against the resolution of GB, Lt Gen Raj Kadyan was asked in writing on 25 April the reasons for his defiance of GB decision and asked to reply by 1 May 12. He replied that he would send his reply by 7 May 12. His reply was not received by the due date. He was then issued a Show Cause Notice on 15 July and was asked to send his justification latest by 25 July 12. Once again the reply has not been received by the due date. In-spite of coming clean and giving justification of his anti IESM action, he has decided to confront the GB and MOA and has announced an EGM with the help of disgruntled veterans. He is also attempting to create a rift in officers, JCOs and ORs where in-fact there is none. There is one important question which every veteran is asking, "How much veterans have befitted from his friendship with the Defence Minister? The answer probably is that NIL. Pension of widows also could not be increased with his clout.Governing Body of IESM met on 25 July 12 and deliberated on this situation and came to the conclusion that Lt Gen Raj Kadyan has no justification for his action against the collective will of GB. He has been constantly acting against the majority decision of GB. Because of constant defiance of GB and lowering the image of IESM by Lt Gen Raj Kadyan, his primary membership of IESM has been terminated by the GB under the powers vested in GB under clause 7 (d) (vi) of MOA. His primary membership of IESM has been terminated with immediate effect.This is a very sad decision that primary membership of the erstwhile Chairman had to be terminated because of his constant actions against the majority decisions of the Governing Body and acting against the interest of IESM.
RegardsGp Capt VK Gandhi VSM
Gen Sec IESM
L - 48, Sector - 25,
NOIDA. 201301
Tele no 01204313951
Mobile 09810541222
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