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India Against Corruption {primary list}
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Thursday, January 31, 2013
RE: [IAC#RG] Ashish Nandy - "people from OBC, SC and ST communities most corrupt"
Dear Sir,
On one hand you say there is no scientific data to support the of performance and delinquency of the classes and on the other hand you name certain politicians. Terming backward castes as most corrupt without any data is nothing but discrimination on the grounds only of caste, which is prohibited by the Constitution. In fact the words OBC ought not to have been used as the creamy layer is excuded and the politicians named cannot be said as belonging to OBC as such. The class of currupt is all together a different class which has no connection with caste. This prejudice against caste is dangerous and was least expected from a retired judge who has served on various posts.
"The tragedy is that these profound modifications in society through out the Country were not accompanied by a system of Surveys for maintaining Data of performance and delinquency of these privileged Castes and classes. So, even if reality stares in the face of the Nation, there is no scientific data to support a view whether or not these privileged Castes and Classes had been performing well or otherwise. To the names specified in your mail, a number of others can be added; some of them have come to the notice of Supreme Court like Mayavati and Mulayam Singh Yadav."
I hope the younger generation gets the light.
Bombay High Court.
102, 1st Floor, Ruby Mahal,
30-D, Cawasji Patel Street,
Opp. Yazdani Bakery,
Nr. Hutatma Chowk,
Fort, Mumbai - 01.
022 - 22021020.
9833517000.
From: justicekn@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2013 11:57:44 +0530
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] Ashish Nandy - "people from OBC, SC and ST communities most corrupt"
That is the irony: Truth leads to persecution; many great men suffered because they were truthful, Mahatma Gandhi the most glaring example. There is a tragedy. During the times of freedom movement, considerations of caste were thrown aside so much so that a sizeable section of Students dropped their 'surname' while filling the High School Examination Form. In Courts too, Caste was dropped from the names of witnesses or parties. But in course of time, Caste considerations raised their head again, and the surnames reappeared. Mandal Commission identified more than 3000 backward castes; the tribe continues to grow and there is no let up in demands for more Castes. Standards of Merit were compromised and Examination-pass marks or competition eligibility marks were studiously diluted. The tragedy is that these profound modifications in society through out the Country were not accompanied by a system of Surveys for maintaining Data of performance and delinquency of these privileged Castes and classes. So, even if reality stares in the face of the Nation, there is no scientific data to support a view whether or not these privileged Castes and Classes had been performing well or otherwise. To the names specified in your mail, a number of others can be added; some of them have come to the notice of Supreme Court like Mayavati and Mulayam Singh Yadav.
Apparently, there is a disconnect between the Fundamental Right of Free Speech in Article 19 and the onerous provisions of the Act meant to provide special protection to Scheduled Caste persons by punishing others. Perhaps a popular demand can be made to institute a suitable Commission to probe into the realities of effects of special privileges granted to SC/ST/OBC so that just and proper law may be framed to ensure dignity not only to SC/ST/OBC but also to common man- human dignity is a basic feature of the Constitution of India which Preamble clearly emphasises.
May God show light to all concerned.
KN
From the Desk of :
Justice Kamleshwar Nath
| Retd. | : | Up-Lokayukta ( Karnataka ), Vice Chairman – C.A.T ( Allahabad ), Judge – High Court ( Lucknow & Allahabad ) |
| Address | : | `Gunjan', C - 105, Niralanagar, Lucknow : 226 020. Uttar Pradesh, India |
| Phone(s) | : | +91-522-2789033 & +91-522-4016459. Mobile : +91-9415010746 |
From: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net [mailto:indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net] On Behalf Of DR MC GEORGE
Sent: Monday, January 28, 2013 7:43 PM
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Ashish Nandy - "people from OBC, SC and ST communities most corrupt"
| Hello friends Ashis Nandy has come to his own conclusion after the scale of corruption by Mayavathy, Lalu, Karunanidhi, and others who succeeded to the positions of power in the name of community or castes. Can anybody claim that they have been following clean rule or they have tried to improve the lot of their community/castes?. They utilised the oppurtunities to explore new and modern styles of corrupt practices for their own personnel or family interests. A comparison to the extent of corruption between communitiy and castes combination may not be authentic so much so it may be an exageration to put one is more corrupt than the other. Anyway the fact remains that our rulers are all following the path of corruption irrespective of their community or caste. Dr.M.C.GEORGE,ADVOCATE.
|
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[HumJanenge] Fw: Article - WE INDIANS ARE A BUNCH OF COWARDS - by Col SS Rajan
WE INDIANS ARE A BUNCH OF COWARDS
Please download attachment
By Col SS Rajan, A Veteran Bombay Sapper
1. It is indeed a matter of national shame that Pakistan Army carries out a raid at Mendhar, near Poonch (J&K), capture two of our soldiers deployed in the forward post along the Line of Control (LoC) and beheads them; and we do nothing by way of retaliation.
2. How I wish, the Indian Army had not created a hullaballoo of our soldiers being beheaded; but immediately launched an offensive against Pakistan Army along the LoC in J&K and killed 200 of their soldiers. That is the only language the Pakistanis understand.
3. The Nation can be legitimately proud that our Commanders, starting from Army Commanders and down the line to Battalion Commanders are capable of retaliating and giving a befitting reply to Pakistanis. Yet, if they have not done so, the fault lies with our Political class, aided & abetted by self serving and vile Bureaucracy, in emasculating the Armed Forces' will to fight and retaliate to Pakistan Army's misdemeanors.
4. Barbarism, massacre, rape, loot & plunder are synonymous with the Pakistan Army; nay, with all Muslim armies down the ages.
5. To quote Lt Gen SK Sinha, former Vice Chief of Army Staff:
Ø "During the 1947-48, the Srinagar Valley was totally isolated in winter with surface and air communications closed due to snow. We had an isolated garrison at Skardu Fort in Baltistan under Lt Col Shamsher Jung Thapa, besieged by Pakistani forces. A large number of Hindu and Sikh refugees had taken shelter in the fort. With supplies rapidly dwindling as we could not carry out airdrops, Col Thapa surrendered to Pakistani Army on announcement of ceasefire; and Pakistani forces occupied the fort. We soon intercepted a wireless message from the Pakistani commander at Skardu to his higher headquarters: "All Hindus & Sikhs killed and women raped."
Ø "During the 1971 war, Pakistani forces raped lakhs of Bengali women and massacred some one million Bangladeshis".
Ø "During the Kargil War, Capt Sourav Kalia and his men when unfortunately captured by the Pakistan Army, their eyes were gouged, their genitals cut and their bodies mutilated".
Ø "In February 2000, Ilyas Kashmiri captured Sepoy Talaker of 17 Maratha Light Infantry, beheaded him and presented his head as a war trophy to former Pakistan President Pervez Musharraf. He got a reward of One lakh. Photos of this grisly act were published in newspapers in Lahore".
Ø "While we were hosting Pakistan foreign minister Hina Rabbani Khar, two soldiers of 20 Kumaon Regiment captured in Kupwara were beheaded as reported by an Indian news magazine".
6. Ineptitude and lack of spine in the political class, cutting across party lines, to take hard decisions in matters of National Security has been the bane of this Nation; which today is perceived as a 'Soft State' by the world.
Bungling by one Prime Minister after another
7. In 1948, when Gen KM Cariappa, the then Commander of Indian Forces in Kashmir told Pandit Nehru that the Indian Army was poised to throw out the Pakistani invaders from Kashmir and all that he need was ten days time; Pandit Nehru turned a deaf ear and went in for a ceasefire, despite mature military advice. And, that was the start point of the Kashmir problem, complicated & compounded by each successive Prime Minister.
8. Despite Sardar Vallabhai Patel, the then Home Minister, warning Pandit Nehru in writing on 7 Nov 1950 that China is a potential enemy and not to be trusted; Pandit Nehru ignored the Venerable Sardar's advice, for which the Country paid a heavy price in 1962. Please click on the following link to read the Sardar's letter.
9. It is with pain & anguish I say, "Whatever gains have been made on the battle field by Soldiers, by spilling their blood and sacrificing their lives; the same have been negated or surrendered by Politicians, aided & abetted by self serving bureaucrats, across the negotiating table, in their talks with the enemy / adversary". Just two examples would suffice:
Ø In Sep 1965 war with Pakistan, inspite of heavy odds, 1st Parachute Battalion of the Indian Army led by Major Ranjit Singh Dayal, a courageous soldier captured Hajipir Pass, a strategic location, in a daring operation; linking Uri and Poonch. Yet, Shri Lal Bahadur Shastri, the the Hon'ble Prime Minister Of India on the advice of ill informed & self serving bureaucrats surrendered Hajipir Pass to Pakistan, much against mature military advice.
Ø At the end of the war with Pakistan in Dec 1971, Pakistan lay dis-membered and the Pakistan Army's morale was shattered & broken, with the surrender of Lt Gen AAK Niazi alongwith 93000 PoW. In July 1972, at the Shimla talks, India was in an unassailable position to dictate terms to Pakistan; and insist on the vacation of Pak occupied Kashmir (PoK); in return for Pakistani PoW held in India. Had India insisted that Pakistan first vacate PoK, to facilitate return of PoW, Pakistan would have buckled and vacated PoK; and that would have put an end to Kashmir problem, then & there. But as ill luck would have it, that was not to be. Indira Gandhi drunk with power and having been won over by the charms of wily Zulfikar Ali Bhutto, returned 93000 Pakistani PoW, despite mature military advice against the move by Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw, the then Chief of Army Staff. What did India gain by going to war with Pakistan in Dec 1971 and suffering 10,000 casualties? Nothing, except a big ZERO. Sad.
10. India and Pakistan can never live in peace. It is not because India does not desire peace; but, it is belligerent Pakistan, instigated, aided & abetted by China, with the tacit approval of USA, that it can impose its will militarily and forcibly wrest control of Kashmir. The very edifice of Pakistan is built on the foundation of Hate: 'Hate India'. The people in Pakistan are indoctrinated, right from their childhood, in schools & colleges to Hate Hindus, Hate Indians and to Hate India. This mantra of hate is the elixir that sustains Pakistan, whether the Army rules or Zardai rules or Mr Nawaz Sharif rules or Syed Quadri rules or Imran Khan rules Pakistan. Where is the question of rapprochement & peace between India and Pakistan; when, barbaric Muslim invaders and marauders like Mohd Ghori, Mohd Ghazni & their ilk, who pillaged & plundered, ransacked & looted, raped & murdered the Indians, in the bygone era, are today the icons of hero worship by the Pakistanis; and, they hark back to the 1000 years of glorious Muslim & Mughal rule in India and its establishment once again.
11. The Question is where do we go from here, as a Nation? Answer: Nowhere, except downhill. As long as we have a bunch of imbecile & corrupt Politicians rule this Country, ably aided & abetted by self serving & vile bureaucrats, what else do you expect?
12. Can the three Service Chiefs do anything to arrest the present slide? I am afraid not. Why? I regret to say that the three Service Chiefs, have long ago mortgaged their professional integrity, for the sake of a few crumbs of office thrown at them by way of a Governor's post to an in inconsequential state in the North-East or a 'plum' ambassadorial post to countries like Guatemala, Honduras or Nicaragua. What a shame. What a fall. GOD help this Country.
The author was commissioned the Corps of Engineers of the Indian Army in June 1963 and retired as Additional Chief Engineer in Oct 1996. He commanded an Engineer Construction Company during the 1971 war in the Boyra- Jessore – Khulna sector in BanglaDesh.
[IAC#RG] Fwd: Proud To Be Indian ! In Praise of India: Top 10 Famous Quotations...
Dear friends,
Greetings.
Ltcol retd TTKishore
Subject: Proud To Be Indian ! In Praise of India: Top 10 Famous Quotations...
![]()
Praise of India - Quotations
- In Praise of India: Top 10 Famous Quotations -
[IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh
Mr Sanjay Chaturvedi /Dr Rina Mukherji,
--
LTCOL(retd) T T KISHORE
FLAT NO-134, SECTOR-A,
AWHO COLONY, SIKH ROAD,
GAUTAM ENCLAVE,
SECUNDERABAD-09
Res-040-27840415
Cell-9912594602
Greetings. I am sure ,though,unintentionally I hope ,from your side, I get a feeling of getting demonized.
I want a ' Pan Indian and Indian language'.
1) My contention is Hindi does not fit the Bill. Sanskrit could have got its right full role of being
Pan Indian , but for the arrogance of some people .( We have a local Telugu proverb which goes as -- where ever I bath is Ganga & who ever, I covet is Rambha ie a celestial and Dev Indra's courtesan) . My agony is intensified to note,rightly or wrongly, owing to failure of Gandhiji in the selection of his linguist advisors we have been deprived of richness/pride/glory of having 'Ilm' ie 'Ken' ie ' Gnan' of our ancient Sanskrit.
.2)You can consider me a proper Pan -Indian and a Hindi knowing secular chap! Yes, let all Indians share the same handicap of learning English and compete,rather than ,allowing a few the advantage of THEIR 'Madri Jaban/ Matru Bhasha'. Any way we Indians have been conditioned for the past 60 years or more ' To Share stupidity and poverty' and leave the goodies to the usual fortunate and blessed few ie Netas and their Betas + the Bad babus who do their bidding and so a compulsion to foist Hindi on non Hindi and Hindi speakers.
3)And so, why not select at this belated stage a better tool ' Sanskrit' . The choice of Hybrid Hindi
Will be in my opinion a sure shot remedy for perpetuating the misery of ignorance and hence backwardness.
Till Sanskrit is established, let the English( evil and Vile to the cow-beltHindi jingoists) would be a lesser evil with an added advantage of being understood by majority of our people ,as also majority of the world's people and is preferred tool for universal interactions in pursuit of excellence.
4)My feelings for Telugu or Tamil or Kannada or Malayalam or Oriya or Marathi or Gujarathi or Punjabi or Assamese or Kashmiri to be a
Pan-Indian language/medium or same as those for Suddh or Misrit Hindi . That way Chinese are showing they are much more pragmatic than others in general and we Indians in particular ,by pursuing English-language with out weakening their ancient cultural moorings. We also can be equally pragmatic towards English and our own ancient Indian Culture .
Regards.
LtCol retd TTKishore
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sanjay Chaturvedi
Date: Wednesday, January 30, 2013
Subject: Fwd: [IAC#RG] Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sanjay Chaturvedi
Date: Wednesday, January 30, 2013
Subject: Fwd: [IAC#RG] Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Dear Rina,
Your views are really very practical. I think some people only wish to challenge what makes the things smooth. Whereas people advocate for English be the common language, they do not hesitate to resist Hindii becoming the official common language, Like every other language Hindi speaking people naturally have more command on the language. but does it mean it belongs to them only?
Your views are really very practical. I think some people only wish to challenge what makes the things smooth. Whereas people advocate for English be the common language, they do not hesitate to resist Hindii becoming the official common language, Like every other language Hindi speaking people naturally have more command on the language. but does it mean it belongs to them only?
With Regards
Sanjay Chaturvedi
9811074823
9873174823
Sanjay Chaturvedi
9811074823
9873174823
On 30 January 2013 15:13, Rina Mukherji <rina.mukherji@gmail.com> wrote:
Sorry to intervene, Mr Triambakkishore. Though I do not endorse Hindi colonialism/imperialism, I find nothing wrong in having a single national language. The idea of having Hindi as the national language rose becauseof it being spoken in a majority of the provinces. It is true that in the north, all signs are put up in Hindi ( without a corresponding English one), but doing what the tamilians are doing-putting every sign up in Tamil-is hardly the solution.The important thing is to get our history books and newspapers to be a little more mindful of representing India as a whole, and not be Delhi-centric.Where the north Indians are concerned, you must pardon them their ignorance. Their idea of India is what they see in Bollywood films. For them, a Parsi is Muslim, the Oriyas and Assamese are all Bengali, and people from peninsular India- are all Madrasi. Even where Muslims are concerned, they feel surprised that Bengali Muslims, or the Gujarat Muslims do not use Urdu, but their respective regional languages!
You could attribute this to a very low literacy level, or a myopic vision; but that does not mean you should revile the learning of Hindi itself.It is important , instead, to stress on the learning of each other's languages rather than foreign languages at the school level.RinaOn Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:54 AM, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear All,Greetings.LtCol retd TTKishore
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: tadepalli triambakakishore
Date: Tuesday, January 29, 2013
Subject: Fwd: [IAC#RG] Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh
To: prabhat jonathan <prabhatjon@gmail.com>
DearPrabhat Jonathan,Pardon me for getting your name wrong.While drafting the email ,I have forgotten to mention Bangla, Akhomese and eastern dialects ,Kashmiri,Dogri,Sindhi,Gujarati and MP's /UP's /Rajastan's Hindi dialects.I couldn't help writing you some more.How come even at this juncture people like Ashutosh JI are still labouring to assault rest of Bharat with their Shuddh Hindi.OR is it another attempt to drive away non -Hindi mother tongue persons by forces inimical to the on going transactions and interactions of IAC.By the way, any middle school vernacular medium student can communicate in English with just 600 words vocabulary( including words like a,an, is, it, the, this, that,here,there,cat,rat,bat etc).1)What is Hindi ? Hindi as used by the protagonist is far cry from the lingo spoken in various parts of so called cow - belt.Is' nt the language a new cocktail of Urdu, Persian and Sanskrit?2)Gandhiji's pet project of a pan -Indian lingo had his so called linguistic stalwarts establishingHindi prachar Sabhas,and since it is blessed by Gandhiji, all Desh Bhakts Length and width of Bharat got carried away and went in to a over drive.It was forgotten that we People of Bharat are as different and diverse as a lily to jasmine to kevda to chrysanthemum or genda. Also we were not ruled by monarchs in the mould of Russians or Chinese or French . Moghuls andEnglish could' nt care, so long their courtiers spoke in the language they can understand.3)English being a very simple language and THE RULER' S lingo,every impressionable person including Gandhiji,Nehru,Patel,Bose etc took to it being the only window of Hope and Thought as all aggregate Indian intellect was shoved to backburner by elite and supporters of the rulers,be they IMoghuls or English.(My Uncle ie elder brother of my father learnt Persian along side Telugu and Sanskrit ,as Krishna District of AP then,was under Nizam's influence and my father studied English instead of Persian.)English was the means to upward mobility and to Developed Europe/America as English speaking men were calling the shots.4)We people of Penensular India ie South India are indebted to Tamilians who stopped all jingoistic Hindi Vadi in their tracks. My mother tongue Telugu is as evolved as as any other Earth' s language and so are Tamil/Malayalam /Kannada of Dravidian group of lingos. People are proud of their mother tongue and not Hindi(a hybrid to put mildly)5).Where is the question of patriotism.We all know that Hindi was bound to aggravate the already existing backwardness as it was not in the same league as English for Scientific temperament,and had no appeal to seekers of excellence in all fields of human endeavor.I doubt whether Mr Ashutosh is not one of the cow- belt chaps for whom South of Vindhyas is MADRAS and all those in the region are MADRASIS who feels" Bhasha se Rashtr vaad ka sambandh hai". If so,my sympathies to his cerebral prowess and we get ready for more such assaults.Please do me a favor of translating to Hindi for info of Mr Ashutosh and his ilk.( in retrospect WHAT THE HELL)Sorry for the long conversation.Regards.LtCol retd TTKishore
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ashu
Date: Tuesday, January 29, 2013
Subject: [IAC#RG]
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
भाषा से राष्ट्रवाद का सम्बन्ध है ..
मुझे इस बात से समस्या नहीं की किसी प्रान्त में हिंदी नहीं बोली जाती यदि हम चाहे तो मातृ भाषा सीख सकते हैं . मातृभाषा के निर्धारण का आधार पर लम्बी चर्चा हो सकती है . मगर गुलामी के प्रतिको को ढोते रहना कहाँ तक जायज है??रही बात संसद की तो संसद में क्या होता है ये पूरा हिन्दुस्थान देखता है विश्व बैंक और यूरोप की दलाली पर चलने वाली संसद है ये .. आज तक अंग्रेजी कानून के अल्पविराम और पूर्ण विराम नहीं बदल पाए संसद के कर्णधार तो संसद की भाषा कैसे बदलेंगे ...यदि सिर्फ आधार बोले जाने का है तो कृपया मार्गदर्शन करे हिन्दुस्थान के कितने प्रतिशत लोग अंग्रेजी जानते हैं की इसे विचार सम्प्रेषण का माध्यम बना जाये।। इससे ज्यादा तो मराठी या तमिल जानने वाले होंगे ..आशुतोष2013/1/28 Prabhat Jonathan <prabhatjon@gmail.com>हाँ तो बंधु भाषा से भारतीयता का क्या संबंध है ? इस हिसाब से कई प्रांत जहां उन प्रांतो की भाषा बोली ओर लिखी जाती है वो तो भारत के ही नहीं हैं ? ऑर हिन्दी ऑर अँग्रेजी दोनों ही संसद की भाषा है भाई मेरे तो सभी को हक़ है किसी भी भाषा मे लिखने के लिए ऑर कोई ऑर नहीं मेरे से ही बात करें
2013/1/25 Ashu <ashu7oct@gmail.com>सब इंडियन हैं या कोई भारतीय भी है यहाँ॥कई दिन से प्रयास कर रहा हूँ कोई हमारी मातृभाषा मे लिखे और उससे ज्ञानार्जन हो मगर यहाँ तो मैकाले की गंगोत्री दिख रही है ॥जय श्री राम
--Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin.
Prabhat Jonathan
C-DAC
New Delhi
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LTCOL(retd) T T KISHORE
FLAT NO-134, SECTOR-A,
AWHO COLONY, SIKH ROAD,
GAUTAM ENCLAVE,
SECUNDERABAD-09
Res-040-27840415
Cell-9912594602
--
LTCOL(retd) T T KISHORE
FLAT NO-134, SECTOR-A,
AWHO COLONY, SIKH ROAD,
GAUTAM ENCLAVE,
SECUNDERABAD-09
Res-040-27840415
Cell-9912594602
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Re: [IAC#RG] PIL about BHC
Dear friend
You have done fantastic work. Can you please share me the copy of the PIL case. In fact, Odisha High Court Rules also suffer from a lot of incongrities. We are also planning to file a case challenging it in the High Court.
Regards
Pradip Pradhan
You have done fantastic work. Can you please share me the copy of the PIL case. In fact, Odisha High Court Rules also suffer from a lot of incongrities. We are also planning to file a case challenging it in the High Court.
Regards
Pradip Pradhan
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 2:45 PM, Nainesh Dolas <naineshdolas@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Friends,
I have file one PIL about rules which is Frame by Bombay High Court about RTI as per me it is overiding the basic ACT RTI ACT 2005 .
the said PIL is kept on Board on 08/02/2013 for hearing. the said PIL No. 55 of 2012.
your co-operation and views is required in the same issue
Warm Regards,
N.Dolas
(M) 9869256740.
www.rignaineshsureshdolas.com
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Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh
Wow! Rina, Harpal & Col TT,
Good to hear nice views on the language issue.
Here is what I would like to add.
I have been in the Army for 21 years and traveled all over india. Commanded South indian troops (Madras Sappers) , now settled in US and have traveled to Africa, China, Europe, south America and many other places.
First observation is that we should be proud Indians and have one common language ie Hindi. So that as an Indian we don't feel outsider in south or east india.
Also we must learn English to communicate with the outside world. I can see how in US chinese people feel small due to Indian soft ware experts are good in English. One good thing done be Pt Nehru.
Learn at least one more foreign language eg French/Spanish/German etc to have a better reach in the world.
Local language or mother tounge is naturally learned at home but should be taught as third language so that kids can read and write easily.
More languages learned makes kids well rounded person and create /generate curiosity in them to learn other cultures which will make them smarter.
So cheers! Have fun. Learn more as its never enough.
Major Gurjeet Singh
-----Original Message-----
From: Rina Mukherji <rina.mukherji@gmail.com>
Sender: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:21:02
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Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh
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Good to hear nice views on the language issue.
Here is what I would like to add.
I have been in the Army for 21 years and traveled all over india. Commanded South indian troops (Madras Sappers) , now settled in US and have traveled to Africa, China, Europe, south America and many other places.
First observation is that we should be proud Indians and have one common language ie Hindi. So that as an Indian we don't feel outsider in south or east india.
Also we must learn English to communicate with the outside world. I can see how in US chinese people feel small due to Indian soft ware experts are good in English. One good thing done be Pt Nehru.
Learn at least one more foreign language eg French/Spanish/German etc to have a better reach in the world.
Local language or mother tounge is naturally learned at home but should be taught as third language so that kids can read and write easily.
More languages learned makes kids well rounded person and create /generate curiosity in them to learn other cultures which will make them smarter.
So cheers! Have fun. Learn more as its never enough.
Major Gurjeet Singh
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From: Rina Mukherji <rina.mukherji@gmail.com>
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Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:21:02
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Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh
This is an interesting debate I just have one suggestion which the government should have done a long time ago and may be still do , they must promote all Indian languages in Roman Script , this way at-least people across the country can read all the languages and it will become easier for them to learn a few languages other their on .
Think about it , the Indonesians have done that with their language .
Nitai Mehta
From: Rina Mukherji <rina.mukherji@gmail.com>
Reply-To: <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:21:02 +0530
To: <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh
Reply-To: <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2013 13:21:02 +0530
To: <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh
I absolutely agree on this, Harpalji. Why Punjab alone...in every state of India, a child is encouraged to converse in English, but the mother tongue is neglected. My daughter had learnt to speak in Bengali first, and learnt to speak Hindi with her friends, and we taught her English before she was admitted to school, just so she did not have a problem.
But she was instructed to converse in English all the while; and in spite of us scolding her, English has grown to be her " first " language. She can read and write fluently in Bengali and Hindi, but her fluency in speaking Bengali is down.
Sanskrit should have been encouraged; but today, a student who opts for Sanskrit as the optional or 3rd language is handicapped when her parents move out on transfer, since hardly any school offers it. My neighbour's daughter - when she came from Chennai-could only attend Kendriya Vidyalaya in Kolkata, since no other school had Sanskrit.
As regards learning Sanskrit which is assumed to be opposed by others, it is just bunkum. There are many Muslim students who are happily learning Sanskrit in government schools, and are topping in the subject .( It is just as many Hindu students who want to learn Urdu, but are denied the facilities to.) BTW, Dr APJ Abdul Kalam is well-versed in the Hindu scriptures since he studied Sanskrit at school.This does not make him a lesser Muslim at all.
The only way to learn Sanskrit today is to enrol oneself in an evening class at some ashram....
Regards,
Dr Rina Mukherji
Kolkata
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 7:11 AM, Harpal Selhi <drharpal@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Runa n othersWe are not saying that as a nation resist Hindi, but what matters is when for their political benefit they start promoting Hindi over the regional language or our mother tongue.Can you imagine in Punjab, schools teach Hindi first and later in 3rd they start with Punjabi and then encourage Hindi in 9th n 10th grade, further children are encouraged to speak English or Hindi but told not to speak Punjabi.I would like to hear your views on this!!!!!RegardsHarpalNext time you are driving, keep this in mind:
"Honk if you love Jesus, text if you want to meet him!"
Sent from my iPhoneDear Rina,
Your views are really very practical. I think some people only wish to challenge what makes the things smooth. Whereas people advocate for English be the common language, they do not hesitate to resist Hindii becoming the official common language, Like every other language Hindi speaking people naturally have more command on the language. but does it mean it belongs to them only?With Regards
Sanjay Chaturvedi
9811074823
9873174823On 30 January 2013 15:13, Rina Mukherji <rina.mukherji@gmail.com> wrote:Sorry to intervene, Mr Triambakkishore. Though I do not endorse Hindi colonialism/imperialism, I find nothing wrong in having a single national language. The idea of having Hindi as the national language rose becauseof it being spoken in a majority of the provinces. It is true that in the north, all signs are put up in Hindi ( without a corresponding English one), but doing what the tamilians are doing-putting every sign up in Tamil-is hardly the solution.The important thing is to get our history books and newspapers to be a little more mindful of representing India as a whole, and not be Delhi-centric.Where the north Indians are concerned, you must pardon them their ignorance. Their idea of India is what they see in Bollywood films. For them, a Parsi is Muslim, the Oriyas and Assamese are all Bengali, and people from peninsular India- are all Madrasi. Even where Muslims are concerned, they feel surprised that Bengali Muslims, or the Gujarat Muslims do not use Urdu, but their respective regional languages!You could attribute this to a very low literacy level, or a myopic vision; but that does not mean you should revile the learning of Hindi itself.It is important , instead, to stress on the learning of each other's languages rather than foreign languages at the school level.RinaOn Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 3:54 AM, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:Dear All,Greetings.LtCol retd TTKishore
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: tadepalli triambakakishore
Date: Tuesday, January 29, 2013
Subject: Fwd: [IAC#RG] Hindi SE rashtravaad KA sambandh
To: prabhat jonathan <prabhatjon@gmail.com>
DearPrabhat Jonathan,Pardon me for getting your name wrong.While drafting the email ,I have forgotten to mention Bangla, Akhomese and eastern dialects ,Kashmiri,Dogri,Sindhi,Gujarati and MP's /UP's /Rajastan's Hindi dialects.I couldn't help writing you some more.How come even at this juncture people like Ashutosh JI are still labouring to assault rest of Bharat with their Shuddh Hindi.OR is it another attempt to drive away non -Hindi mother tongue persons by forces inimical to the on going transactions and interactions of IAC.By the way, any middle school vernacular medium student can communicate in English with just 600 words vocabulary( including words like a,an, is, it, the, this, that,here,there,cat,rat,bat etc).1)What is Hindi ? Hindi as used by the protagonist is far cry from the lingo spoken in various parts of so called cow - belt.Is' nt the language a new cocktail of Urdu, Persian and Sanskrit?2)Gandhiji's pet project of a pan -Indian lingo had his so called linguistic stalwarts establishingHindi prachar Sabhas,and since it is blessed by Gandhiji, all Desh Bhakts Length and width of Bharat got carried away and went in to a over drive.It was forgotten that we People of Bharat are as different and diverse as a lily to jasmine to kevda to chrysanthemum or genda. Also we were not ruled by monarchs in the mould of Russians or Chinese or French . Moghuls andEnglish could' nt care, so long their courtiers spoke in the language they can understand.3)English being a very simple language and THE RULER' S lingo,every impressionable person including Gandhiji,Nehru,Patel,Bose etc took to it being the only window of Hope and Thought as all aggregate Indian intellect was shoved to backburner by elite and supporters of the rulers,be they IMoghuls or English.(My Uncle ie elder brother of my father learnt Persian along side Telugu and Sanskrit ,as Krishna District of AP then,was under Nizam's influence and my father studied English instead of Persian.)English was the means to upward mobility and to Developed Europe/America as English speaking men were calling the shots.4)We people of Penensular India ie South India are indebted to Tamilians who stopped all jingoistic Hindi Vadi in their tracks. My mother tongue Telugu is as evolved as as any other Earth' s language and so are Tamil/Malayalam /Kannada of Dravidian group of lingos. People are proud of their mother tongue and not Hindi(a hybrid to put mildly)5).Where is the question of patriotism.We all know that Hindi was bound to aggravate the already existing backwardness as it was not in the same league as English for Scientific temperament,and had no appeal to seekers of excellence in all fields of human endeavor.I doubt whether Mr Ashutosh is not one of the cow- belt chaps for whom South of Vindhyas is MADRAS and all those in the region are MADRASIS who feels" Bhasha se Rashtr vaad ka sambandh hai". If so,my sympathies to his cerebral prowess and we get ready for more such assaults.Please do me a favor of translating to Hindi for info of Mr Ashutosh and his ilk.( in retrospect WHAT THE HELL)Sorry for the long conversation.Regards.LtCol retd TTKishore
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Ashu
Date: Tuesday, January 29, 2013
Subject: [IAC#RG]
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
भाषा से राष्ट्रवाद का सम्बन्ध है ..
मुझे इस बात से समस्या नहीं की किसी प्रान्त में हिंदी नहीं बोली जाती यदि हम चाहे तो मातृ भाषा सीख सकते हैं . मातृभाषा के निर्धारण का आधार पर लम्बी चर्चा हो सकती है . मगर गुलामी के प्रतिको को ढोते रहना कहाँ तक जायज है??रही बात संसद की तो संसद में क्या होता है ये पूरा हिन्दुस्थान देखता है विश्व बैंक और यूरोप की दलाली पर चलने वाली संसद है ये .. आज तक अंग्रेजी कानून के अल्पविराम और पूर्ण विराम नहीं बदल पाए संसद के कर्णधार तो संसद की भाषा कैसे बदलेंगे ...यदि सिर्फ आधार बोले जाने का है तो कृपया मार्गदर्शन करे हिन्दुस्थान के कितने प्रतिशत लोग अंग्रेजी जानते हैं की इसे विचार सम्प्रेषण का माध्यम बना जाये।। इससे ज्यादा तो मराठी या तमिल जानने वाले होंगे ..आशुतोष2013/1/28 Prabhat Jonathan <prabhatjon@gmail.com>हाँ तो बंधु भाषा से भारतीयता का क्या संबंध है ? इस हिसाब से कई प्रांत जहां उन प्रांतो की भाषा बोली ओर लिखी जाती है वो तो भारत के ही नहीं हैं ? ऑर हिन्दी ऑर अँग्रेजी दोनों ही संसद की भाषा है भाई मेरे तो सभी को हक़ है किसी भी भाषा मे लिखने के लिए ऑर कोई ऑर नहीं मेरे से ही बात करें2013/1/25 Ashu <ashu7oct@gmail.com>सब इंडियन हैं या कोई भारतीय भी है यहाँ॥कई दिन से प्रयास कर रहा हूँ कोई हमारी मातृभाषा मे लिखे और उससे ज्ञानार्जन हो मगर यहाँ तो मैकाले की गंगोत्री दिख रही है ॥जय श्री राम
--Yesterday is gone. Tomorrow has not yet come. We have only today. Let us begin.
Prabhat Jonathan
C-DAC
New Delhi
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LTCOL(retd) T T KISHORE
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--
LTCOL(retd) T T KISHORE
FLAT NO-134, SECTOR-A,
AWHO COLONY, SIKH ROAD,
GAUTAM ENCLAVE,
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Res-040-27840415
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Re: [IAC#RG] Sarbajit Roy I ask you to apologise to Arvind Kejriwal for your endless, unsubstantiated allegations
Dear Sanjeev
Firstly, I believe that the appropriate course of action for anyone who seeks to take up cudgels on Mr. Arvind's behalf would be for them to first respond with evidence to the 27 queries which Mr.Digvijaya Singh had publicly posed to Mr. Kejriwal on behalf of the public of India .
If you have chosen to forget them (collective amnesia) they are available here:-
http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in/questions-arvind-must-answer
These allegations are extremely serious. If anyone has to apologise, it should be Arvind Kejriwal to the nation and people of India.
Secondly, and I did not choose to bring this up earlier since I am a gentleman, the public of India is fed up with so many former public servants (including yourself) who descend from foreign skies scattering foreign (?) money (from unaccounted / carefully laundered sources) teaching / lecturing us about corruption and alternate governance/ economic systems.
Thirdly, I have read your book on Nehruvian socialism, and it is not well written (actually it is very poorly written) and your knowledge of economic systems (especially socialist systems) needs to be upgraded considerably. India is still a socialist country per the Constitution and your public allergy and libelous remarks about socialism betray your own anti-national leanings and agenda. Why did you leave the IAS BTW, and start working with the Australian Government ?
Fourthly, there is no question of my apologising to anybody for a blogpost you published on your website of an email I sent in response to your father when he mass-mailed me with yet another of Arvind's wild allegations (this time against Mukesh Ambani).
Fifthly, your blog/website is not a court of law. You are nobody to frame issues/charges or demand that I reply/apologise. (And neither is Mr.Arvind Kejriwal for Mr.Mukesh Ambani). Emails circulated privately between individuals do not constitute publication - and in fact I never gave my consent for you to publish them and I don't see what I have to apologise for. If Mr.Arvind Kejriwal is aggrieved he can contact me directly instead of hiding under your petticoat and piddling from there. He is now a political figure and heads a political party and is up there rubbing shoulders with all the rape accused and murder accused of India whose alleged numbers in Parliament he enlightened us on.
Sixthly, insofar as one Mr. Kishore Asthana is concerned. I suppose you do know that he is ex-Tata Adminstrative Services and is directly affected by my statements concerning Tatas in this controversy which you ex-IITians have "engineered" to save Arvind's increasingly tattered reputation.
Seventhly, instead of my responding to your issues. Why don't you respond to mine ? Especially concerning role of foreign funding in people/NGOs seeking to interfere in India's governance. This is known as LOBBYING and you seem to be such a person and should come clean about yourself.
In equity, I am publishing this email to various lists I am a subscriber of , alongwith the link to your blogposts for anyone else to interject on beyond your limited circle of cronies.
Sarbajit
Firstly, I believe that the appropriate course of action for anyone who seeks to take up cudgels on Mr. Arvind's behalf would be for them to first respond with evidence to the 27 queries which Mr.Digvijaya Singh had publicly posed to Mr. Kejriwal on behalf of the public of India .
If you have chosen to forget them (collective amnesia) they are available here:-
http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in/questions-arvind-must-answer
These allegations are extremely serious. If anyone has to apologise, it should be Arvind Kejriwal to the nation and people of India.
Secondly, and I did not choose to bring this up earlier since I am a gentleman, the public of India is fed up with so many former public servants (including yourself) who descend from foreign skies scattering foreign (?) money (from unaccounted / carefully laundered sources) teaching / lecturing us about corruption and alternate governance/ economic systems.
Thirdly, I have read your book on Nehruvian socialism, and it is not well written (actually it is very poorly written) and your knowledge of economic systems (especially socialist systems) needs to be upgraded considerably. India is still a socialist country per the Constitution and your public allergy and libelous remarks about socialism betray your own anti-national leanings and agenda. Why did you leave the IAS BTW, and start working with the Australian Government ?
Fourthly, there is no question of my apologising to anybody for a blogpost you published on your website of an email I sent in response to your father when he mass-mailed me with yet another of Arvind's wild allegations (this time against Mukesh Ambani).
Fifthly, your blog/website is not a court of law. You are nobody to frame issues/charges or demand that I reply/apologise. (And neither is Mr.Arvind Kejriwal for Mr.Mukesh Ambani). Emails circulated privately between individuals do not constitute publication - and in fact I never gave my consent for you to publish them and I don't see what I have to apologise for. If Mr.Arvind Kejriwal is aggrieved he can contact me directly instead of hiding under your petticoat and piddling from there. He is now a political figure and heads a political party and is up there rubbing shoulders with all the rape accused and murder accused of India whose alleged numbers in Parliament he enlightened us on.
Sixthly, insofar as one Mr. Kishore Asthana is concerned. I suppose you do know that he is ex-Tata Adminstrative Services and is directly affected by my statements concerning Tatas in this controversy which you ex-IITians have "engineered" to save Arvind's increasingly tattered reputation.
Seventhly, instead of my responding to your issues. Why don't you respond to mine ? Especially concerning role of foreign funding in people/NGOs seeking to interfere in India's governance. This is known as LOBBYING and you seem to be such a person and should come clean about yourself.
In equity, I am publishing this email to various lists I am a subscriber of , alongwith the link to your blogposts for anyone else to interject on beyond your limited circle of cronies.
Sarbajit
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm closing this matter now with the following blog post:http://sabhlokcity.com/2013/01/sarbajit-roy-you-must-now-apologise-to-arvind-kejriwal-for-unsubstantiated-allegations/
Sarbajit, I'm afraid you've not proven your first four allegations, leave alone your innumerous other allegations.sOn Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 4:01 PM, Kishore Asthana <asthana1@yahoo.com> wrote:Dear Saneev,I would be grateful if this meaningless dribble is not copied to me.Just discussing what Arvind did or Ayush said or Sarbajit feels is entirely meaningless. You yourself wrote to me some time back that we must not waste time in such discussions and act. It was a very sensible statement, but you appear to have forgotten it and embarked on a never-ending discussion with this gentleman.All everyone in this dialogue appears to be doing is wasting words. If anyone has such a great compulsion to send emails, they would do well to discuss what their own plans are, what they want to do, how they want to do it and how it would improve India and desist from going on and on about what someone else is doing and why he is doing it and what is wrong with him.Kindly remove my email address from this discussion.Best wishes,Kishore Asthanaps: The least people writing emails can do is change the subject line. I have not done so on purpose in this email - just to show how irrelevent it is to this irrelevent discussion.From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
To: Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@gmail.com>
Cc: Ayush Das <ayush.das@gmail.com>; Somnath Bharti <somnath@bhartiassociates.com>; Prem Sabhlok <psabhlok@hotmail.com>; Arvind Kejriwal <parivartan_india@rediffmail.com>; Kishore Asthana <asthana1@yahoo.com>; "vinayshan@gmail.com" <vinayshan@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 30 January 2013 8:00 AM
Subject: Re: Interesting: Arvind Kejriwal's letter to Mukesh Ambani
Dear Sanjeev
This is a short and hurried reply to a rebuttal by Ayush Das to your blogpost "Explosive allegations against Arvind Kejriwal. I trust he will soon respond." I am sending this at your invite that I respond to Mr.Das.
http://sabhlokcity.com/2013/01/sarbajit-roy-please-respond-to-this-rebuttal-of-your-allegations-re-kejriwal/
Firstly, I cannot agree that the "allegations" against Arvind are "explosive". Numerous facts and charges against Arvind have been in the public domain for a very long time and some of these were again raised a few months back by Mr.Digvijaya Singh of the Congress Party. To which Arvind, strangely, never replied.
Secondly, I'm sure that even Arvind will agree that the IAC's interim reply to Mr. Digvijaya Singh, which Arvind could not acknowledge at the time due to his blossoming political compulsions and new sponsors, certainly blunted Mr.Singh's attack on him for the time being, and the IAC new team's own extensive credibility and media contacts ensured that IAC's counter-attacks on, say, Mr.Pulok Chatterji saved Arvind's skin when he was on the ropes. If Arvind disagrees he should publish his own reply to Mr.Singh's 27 queries otherwise it would be trivial for IAC to do so on his behalf even today.
Thirdly, it is a fact that till date Arvind does not have a single anti-corruption achievement to his credit. IAC does not count generating media publicity and rabble rousing over old and dead issues as achievements.
Fourthly, It is a fact that Arvind was caused to resign from the IRS in 2006. There is a long history as to why he did so which is not congruent with the carefully airbrushed version he puts out or is published in his Magsaysay award citation. I can say this as somebody who has known Arvind for over 10 years starting from our Delhi RTI Act days and initial meetings outside Ms. Shailja Chandra's chambers while waiting for our respective hearings.
Fifthly, It is a fact that Arvind and Manish have been accepting money from a wide range of sources for their so called "social work". These include from various controversial corporate bodies like Tatas, Infosys etc. The media link which Mr.Das has provided is itself misleading. Whereas the headline claims that Mr. Narayan Murthy did not fund Arvind, the internal text makes it abundantly clear that Infosys through its CSR trusts (what are called as PACs in the USA) was in fact regularly financing Arvind's own trusts for many years. The same was true for the Tatas. The fact that such corporates paid Arvind's NGOs such huge amounts - nearly a crore - (Arvind was then a serving IRS/I-T officer whose wife also was in the Serious Frauds Office which investigates such corporates) even 1 rupee makes it clear that they were either being blackmailed or had something to hide. The same goes for the dubious foreign awards regularly arranged for Arvind (by his high profile sponsors) which are well known as tax-free sources of finance for potential trouble makers to carry out the plans of the foreign donors. The phrase which springs to my mind, as its does to the minds of many other eminent patriotic people (please see the vigilonline website for the 2nd edn. of their excellent book "NGOs, Activists and Foreign Funds"), in the context of these awards and dubious NGO entities is "he who pays the piper calls the tune". Another apt phrase would be "anti-national NGOs singing for their supper".
http://www.vigilonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=935
http://www.vigilonline.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=935&Itemid=99999999&limit=1&limitstart=6
Sixthly, I note that for whatever reasons there is a strong IIT alumnus movement (there are many IITians serving in the Govt as Arvind once did) which supports Arvind blindly or takes him at face value. Luckily I am not an IIT-ian and don't share your/their blind faith in his honesty or integrity. I think I have the right as an Indian citizen to freely express in what passes as a democracy my concerns about Arvind's brand of shallow activism, rabble rousing, distinct lack of actual achievement and his personal corruption.
Seventhly, I, like you, firmly oppose all forms of crony capitalism which have resulted in this out-dated and unproven long running fraud called Gandhian socialism / panchayati based rural model applied to urban India which Arvind is peddling as his economic vision for India.
Eightly, It is quite clear that Arvind and his camp had to leave IAC when the true extent of the corruption within his ranks began emerging. The initial probe proposed by them through Justice Verma fell through when even India's most high profile "rent an ex-judge" (who is in the pocket of Arvind's sponsors and incidentally also in one of the "accused"'s) declined to whitewash the public allegations against them. The same happened with the next round of ex-judges they tried to rope in. Finally they could only pick Admiral Ramdas (another receipent of fraud foreign awards which are used to reward anti-national persons especially those who have served their foreign masters while in power). The first action of this retd. Admiral was to make a 180 degree turn about what Arvind had publicly promised when he was still in the IAC. Now the AAP want a "complainant" to come forward with evidence on affidavit to prove the charges . Presumably exactly what Mr.Robert Vadra would expect from Arvind or Prashant !!! It is clear thereby that Arvind is now just another politician who has abandoned his claim to be a corruption fighter, ie. if he ever was one !.
PS: If I have left out anything, I'll respond to that too.
SarbajitOn Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sarbajit,Waiting for your response to the key issues you initially raised against AK - and which are awaiting evidence. Then we'll come to the others, one by one. Let's all get to the bottom of this.
RegardsSanjeevOn Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 3:16 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sanjeev
We can go round and around these ancillary issues without reaching anywhere. But
1) I will give a response to Mr. Das for your blog.
2) Insofar as the other matters are concerned,
a) It is undeniable that Mr. Arvind Kejriwal, Mr. Shekhar Singh, Mr. Harsh Mander, Ms. Aruna Roy, Ms. Maja Daruwala etc and a host of other persons associated with the NCPRI are/were massively foreign financed either directly or through organisations associated with them..
(Can anybody make the same charge against me - to the extent of even 1 rupee ?)
In the case of Ms. Aruna Roy (who works so selflessly in the NAC not even taking 1 rupee as salary - which would make her a public servant liable under Official Secrets Act but nevertheless gets access to extraordinary amounts of information with Govt being a member of NAC) her organisation the SWRC Tilonia (which she piously claims she handed over to some illiterate villagers) gets huge funding (tens of crores each year) routed from dubious places like Tibet, Sierra Leone and USA. Her husband Mr. Bunker Roy's sources of finance are equally curious.
b) In the case of Mr. Shekhar Singh (Convenor NCPRI), there is a CIC decision where I accused him of spying on behalf of a foreign entity by misusing RTI. (By spying I mean contravention of Official Secrets Act by Indian citizens to obtain and transfer information to foreigners who are paying to receive such information). CCIC Mr.Habibullah although recording some of my allegations didn't allow the matter to proceed down my course of action but denied the information to Mr. Singh using some other grounds.
c) In the case of Arvind, his actions and sources of financing between the period of 2004 to 2008 will be very interesting - especially as he was a public servant for much of this time. I have many emails on this subject already in the public domain, but as Arvind is my co-participant in the anti-corruption movement I am not raking these up again.
d) In the case of Maja Daruwala (daughter of our First Field Marshal Sam Manekshaw) and Mr.Shekhar Singh, they and their junior associates represented some of the accused in the Navy War Room spying case in various proceedings. This is in public domain
All this is only the tip of the iceberg when it comes to anti-national activity of NCPRI where Arvind at some period in his development was an active participant. Now it seems he has come out of the spell they cast on him - and which I welcome.
SarbajitOn Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 3:32 AM, Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sarbajit
Thanks for this. Glad that the discussion has begun (please note all this will be published on my blog, once we have reached the final conclusion) for the matter is extremely important. I'm now waiting for your main mail to substantiate your allegations, and also defend yourself against the rebuttal by Ayush, who is, as far as I can see, a disinterested observer.
Also, given your new claims, I'd now like you to provide evidence for the following:
1. You now claim Arvind was undertaking "anti-Indian activities - spying - under NCPRI".
This is truly a serious claim. Please substantiate. Was he transferring state secrets to foreign powers? Did he harm India through RTI activity that sought information on corruption? What harm (if any) was caused India by such data supplied to foreign countries by Arvind? Have you or the police ever investigated such spying by Arvind? What was the result of such invesigation?
2. "Congress/UPA and Aruna Roy tried to hijack our movement (IAC) to keep the scam money flowing for the Congress and later she organised Sri Sri Ravisakar, Kirtan Bedia, Prashant Bhushan and a host of other "eminent" people to misguide the public of Delhi who were agitated with the information we were releasing"
You further state: "very action of his and Prashant Bhushan's is designed in such a way to ensure that nobody else can go after the culprits - who invariably manage to get away."
Now, I know Aruna Roy for many years (she may not recollect me but I have been to Tilonia, had many interactions at the LBSNAA with her and Bunker - when they were together). I've rarely come across a person of such pure intentions and commitment to India's disadvantaged, even though I may disagree with some of her philosophical foundations. I can't even imagine the kind of difficulties she has put herself through after joining the IAS, then resigning within just a year or so. Her whole life has been spent in villages. If she wanted, she could have been not just a governor or ambassador today, but possibly Prime Minister. But she chose the hard way - to reform India from the grassroots. By making such a statement you've now roped in not just Arvind but besmriched the great soul Aruna Roy who is (or at least was, till you wrote this) beyond reproach. I will now need substantial evidence on this assertion.
I trust all the points you've raised earlier, plus these new points, will be proven beyond reasonable doubt.
Regards
SanjeevOn Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 8:21 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Ayush (and other friends on this thread),
Before I get into your points (in another post), perhaps it would help you to know where I am coming from.
As Sanjeev has pointed out, I did my Mechanical Engineering from BITS Pilani (batch of 1980 - passout in 1984). Thereafter, I have continuously practiced as an Engineer, whilst doing social work alongside. By God's design I was placed in certain situations which required me to quickly develop legal skills/knowledge at a very early age on both the criminal and civil side. I thereafter used my knowledge (in the 1980's and early 1990's) to help many poor people (pro bono) who I used to meet floating about in/outside courts to get their grievances redressed from the higher Indian judicial institutions.
In 2002+ We got the Delhi RTI Act. This is the time I came in contact with Arvind and his friends, waiting outside the office of Ms.Shailaja Chandra (IAS and former Chief Secretary of Delhi) who was the Chairperson of the Delhi Public Grievance Commission and also Appellate Authority of the Delhi RTI Act for our hearings.
Perhaps because of my personality, court manner, self evident public interest and precise drafting Ms. Shailaja Chandra always used to ensure I got information out of her officers, which I used to tremendous effect - silently without media publicity. The other people (mostly average Delhi citizens using RTI for the first time) including Arvind always used to get rammed by this lady who hardly ever gave them info and she used to pass all kinds of orders against them. Arvind then became leader/patron of what was known as "Delhi RTI Manch" - ie. all the people disgruntled by Ms Chandra and I attended a few of their meetings and advised them to change their approach but they refused to accept that they were wrong and Arvind kept instigating them - I realised then that Arvind is a "loser" and surrounds himself with losers. One of them, my friend Mr. Ravinder Balwani, was instigated to file a series of complaints alleging corruption against Ms Shailaja Chandra to the Lok Ayukt of Delhi, which she fought out and won eventually in the High Court.
Using the Delhi RTI Manch, Arvind came close to Mr. Shekhar Singh and Ms.Aruna Roy and became a member of the NCPRI. The NCPRI is basically a front for these 2 people and also Mr. Harsh Mander, and is a tremendously anti-national foreign financed group which has been very well exposed by Aruna Roy's IAS batchmate Dr. Krishen Kak in his book "NGOs, subversive activists and foreign funds" accessible online at the "vigilonline" website.
Arvind, who was very hard up then used to file RTIs himself or get RTIs filed on NCPRI's behalf through his network. I don't wish to comment at this time on the RTIs he was filing or their purpose or his other actions. Sufficeth to say that for his anti-Indian activities - spying - under NCPRI he was richly rewarded with 2 prizes - the Ashoka and the Magsaysay arranged by his handlers.
I have had a long running tiff with NCPRI (Arvind was too junior in NCPRI then) bigwigs as my/our RTI group the "Humjanenge" was a counter-force to NCPRI. In 2008 Humjanenge foresaw that the 2010 CommonWealth Gameswould be a great scandal/scam. Accordingly we started RTIing the bodies involved. We were taken to court by IOA and we won a tremendous victory in the High Court and info started flowing to us. This prompted a reaction by the Congress/UPA and Aruna Roy tried to hijack our movement (IAC) to keep the scam money flowing for the Congress and later she organised Sri Sri Ravisakar, Kirtan Bedia, Prashant Bhushan and a host of other "eminent" people to misguide the public of Delhi who were agitated with the information we were releasing, we withdrew at this stage but allowed the CWG scam movement to continue.
I won't comment on Anna Hazare and his role in IAC now, since we seem to have recently sorted out several matters (read about it on the IAC wikipedia page).
The present IAC is a very different operation from Arvind and Anna's time.
It would be very interesting to see how Arvind and his AAP operate/evolve. Till date I have not seen Arvind actually achieve anything against corruption except to make a big noise about it with stale information - usually obtained in RTI by someone else. Every action of his and Prashant Bhushan's is designed in such a way to ensure that nobody else can go after the culprits - who invariably manage to get away. This reinforces my opinion that either Arvind is still a "loser" or that he is corrupt. I certainly don't want India to become a nation of losers if we go down Arvind's path.
Therefore, unlike most people, I prefer to keep my opinion on Arvind's honesty, integrity and effectiveness open.
SarbajitOn Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Ayush Das <ayush.das@gmail.com> wrote:
I have no allegiances to any org, NGO or party. I am just a common
citizen who will support anybody who works for the nation. I
admire Kejriwal's work and character immensely.
I also like Sanjeev sir's work - and hope to see more of him in future.
If indeed India can achieve a per capita of $14K as envisioned by him
- it would completely transform our country, allow us to solve a lot of
problems and would earn us immense respect & power on the Global
scene.
I have lost faith in Anna & IAC completely and won't EVER support them,
unless absolutely required to get something good done.
ADOn Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 10:25 AM, Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear AD
Given my comments policy I can't disclose your details to Sarbajit. You may, if you wish, answer his question/s directly. Pl. copy me in if you choose to respond.
Regards
Sanjeev---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>Date: 2013/1/27
Subject: Re: Interesting: Arvind Kejriwal's letter to Mukesh Ambani
To: Sanjeev Sabhlok <sabhlok@gmail.com>
Dear Sanjeev
Thanks for your email.
Let me clarify that Arvind and I have known each other since our Delhi RTI Act 2001 / Delhi RTI Munch days since about 2003 and we have always been very civil to each other when we meet. We (ie AK and I) both acknowledge each other's determination to do something for the nation notwithstanding that our paths, tactics, strategies, economic policies, (and choice of friends/associates) may be (very) different.
I would certainly respond to AD's rebuttal - in considerable detail. It would help me to know who the person (AD) and their NGO ("FTI") is so that my reply would be directly on his/her points.
Sarbajit
--
sanjeev sabhlok
About me: http://www.linkedin.com/in/sabhlok
Blog: http://sabhlokcity.com/
--
sanjeev sabhlok
About me: http://www.linkedin.com/in/sabhlok
Blog: http://sabhlokcity.com/
http://freedomteam.in
Skypeid: sanjeevsabhlok
--
sanjeev sabhlok
About me: http://www.linkedin.com/in/sabhlok
Blog: http://sabhlokcity.com/
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