Friday, June 14, 2019

Re: [IAC#RG] JOURNALISTS NEED ENTRY BARRIER

The way journalists have handed over themselves to political parties is a real danger to democracy. Way in which in panel discussions anchors are more vocal for the political party to which they have aligned themselves, than the spokesman of that party, does not do good to our democratic traditions. TV channels, newspapers are either being sponsored by political parties or are aligning themselves with them. Real/correct news does not reach the common man on account of conflicting and twisted news and claims by these media.

R.N.Malhotra 

On Friday, June 14, 2019, 8:35:53 AM GMT+5:30, Venkatraman Ns <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:




To

India Against Corruption




                                                                                                            JOURNALISTS NEED ENTRY BARRIER

There are two professions in India and all over the world that seem to have no entry barrier. Anyone can get in and get out at any time.

One is politics ( yes, people from all sorts of background with or without formal education    enter politics   at various levels these days to get powerful positions and make money and are much different from the earlier  days when people entered politics sacrificing their personal interests for the national good)  and journalism ( Yes. Job seekers largely view  journalism  as profession and more as an earning opportunity and  for getting known , rather than viewing it as an opportunity to set the wrong

to become right and fight for larger national good).

Both politicians and journalists largely influence the mood of the country men and except for a very few, they do not perceive and recognize the lofty ideals of these two professions, which should reflect on their desire for noble cause.

This scenario is much different from the scenario in India a few decades back when   most politicians and journalists were viewed as role models for younger generation. No doubt, India is suffering today heavily due to the fall in the standards of politicians and journalists which is certainly not a flattering remark but very much close to the ground realities.

Frequently ,politicians and journalists are accused of heinous crimes like rape, corrupt practices. collusion with criminals etc.

While, by and large ,people seem to have reconciled themselves to the negative view that politicians in India cannot anymore reach the standards  that were set up in the pre independent days and the years immediately after post independence, there is still hope amongst the people  that  the journalists should and will play the role expected of them. While it is a fact that most of the journalists seem to behave like half politicians taking sides and having prejudiced views, there are still a few cases where journalists uphold the value systems as per the expectations of people. But, they are few and far between  and do not get the attention , popularity and publicity that they deserve.

Today, it is very well known that several business houses , politicians,  motivated activists group and religious institutions own media houses in both print and visual media. They recruit only such journalists, who can bend their views to meet the needs and expectations of the promoters, most of whom have vested interests. The journalists who are not willing to compromise often find themselves out of jobs and even driven in  to poverty conditions.

It is even increasingly becoming difficult to get  articles and investigative reports published in media ,unless it would meet the needs of the promoters in one way or the other.

While journalists and journalism in India have some code of conduct and several organisations for journalists exist,  which are supposed to uphold the journalistic ethics, they do not serve the intended purpose, as they are controlled and managed by media representatives who belong to various media that are not independent in approach and viewpoint.

What is increasingly disturbing is the fact that several allegations appear in various newspapers and journals and television media about events and people, which are not substantiated by proof . Many times, it is said that the information has come from " from reliable sources" and nobody knows as to which is the reliable source and what is the real source of information.

When the journalists are challenged to prove their source of information, they claim media freedom and say that they have  a right to protect someone by not revea ling their identity  who gave them the information and they have the liberty not to reveal the source of data and information. Is this not an unethical practice?This  causes suspicion.

When the complaints are made about motivated campaign in the media, the association of journalists ,which are many in number, join together and conduct protest meetings and morchas condemning the government and those who make complaints. Again, such protest of the journalists are prominently published by the media,but not the point of view of those who lodge the complaints.

Under such  circumstances, one gets an impression that media has become a profession that is free for all and concept of media freedom has gone to ridiculous level. Even the government often hesitates to take action against erring journalists fearing media backlash.

While science and  technologies are rapidly developing, and specialisations in every field have become a necessity to comment about the developments knowledgeably, many journalists seem to think that they can comment on any subject where they have no particular expertise. We often see TV debates conducted by the same anchor who comment on issues related to nuclear power on one day, irrigation problem on another day, farmers woes on   third day and educational policies on the next day. They often invite politicians and activists to speak on such issues, who may not have particular expertise in the field.

Indian journalism is now sliding dangerously and it is not good for the social fabric of the country in the short and long run.

Happily, there are still highly principled journalists in our midst and they need to assert themselves and stem the rot and  concerned people should support such journalists of high standard. The cry that the journalists need  entry barrier  would become louder in the coming period.


N.S.Venkataraman

Nandini Voice For The Deprived

nandinivoice.com



Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in

Thursday, June 13, 2019

[IAC#RG] Forget corruption, Modi sarkar is INEFFICIENT as well as corrupt

The rules require that PGPORTAL / CPGRAMS complainst are disposed off within 2 months.In practioce most PGPORTALs are dosposed off in 2 weeks with some evasive reply.

However, most of my PGPORTALs are pending / undecided for 4 months or more. So today I have decided to share some of those with IAC so we can guage for ourselves the deep and pervasice corruption inside Modi sarkar, which only works when Rafale jets have to be bought at 4 times the actual cost.

"PGPORTAL" against 'lal batti VIP culture' filed on 14-March-2019,
Current Status "under process" (overdue by 1 month)

TO:
PRIME MINISTERS OFFICE

I am aggrieved that on 26 Feb 2019 when Shri Naredra Modi travelled by DMRC train from Khan Market the following things occurred

1. That Shri Narendra Modi did not undergo the mandatory 100 percent frisking which all pasengers undergo

2. That Shri Narendra Modi did not pay for his journey and used the side swing door instead of passing through the AFC gates

3. That the coach on which Shri Narendra Modi travelled was cleared of passengers before he boarded which caused loss of revenue to DMRC which is ultimately borne by the paying travelling public. Since a metro coach on this line has a holding capacity of 352 passengers, I demand that a sum of Rupees Twelve Thousand be recovered from PMO on accouint of lost revenue and paid to DMRC.

4. I am additionally generally aggrieved that while riding escalators of DMRC Shri Narendra Modi invariably stands on wrong side thereby preventing other passengers from walking. Mr. Modi also does not hold the side handrail and thereby poses a danger to other passengers on the escalator.

5. That while travelling in DMRC trains Shri Narendra Modi never sits in the seats reserved for old persons and senior citizens, thereby depriving the gemeral public in the unreserved coach from getting a seat.

6. That whenever Shri Modi travels in DMRC trains it seems that all rules and regulations of DMRC about photography and videography within metro trains and premises are overlooked.

Sunday, June 9, 2019

Re: [IAC#RG] Are we Hindus fools to vote for Modi ?


We are probably learning now to defend all our attributes that were mentioned above. Perhaps what is now said to be discovered or invented were all refered  in our various scriptures without any rights/credits being attached to. Latest among those findings is fasting without even water for a day once or twice in a month immunizes our system / body. This "finding" was awarded Nobel price of late. Though gone into oblivion there are still some people practicing rigidly Ekadasi upavas, notwithstanding the severe pollution around! These were not talked about or celebrated but was just, possibly, a beaten track! When Yashodamai was eprimanding "young Krishna for eating earth (mud) he is said to have shown all the "14 worlds" which are referred in our scriptures, in his mouth one after the other, may be as if passing over a screen! Whether fiction or imagination was that not comparable to browsing on internet! Were Vishwaroopams were a reality.

I hope I am entitled to believe that cast system, as prevailing now, was the creation of cunning selfish interests of some one who could assert! The fact that there is no "Brahmin God" known but every Indian including "Brahmins" worshiping  Lord Krishna (a Yadav) only reinforces that the cast system is a creation of some one dominant and not as contented by todays politicians!

I am entitled further, I hope, to observe that Modi by his intelect and knowledge proved to be Brahmin, by his boldness (valour?) a Kshatriya, by his business accumen a Vaishya, and by his Swatch Bharat mission a Shudra! This only goes to prove that Human can chose any cast inwhich one aspire to be and work towards that! And this is precisely what is stated in our great scriptures, I presume! 

Hope I have not offended any one by my observations!
On Saturday, 8 June, 2019, 8:45:00 am IST, Sarbajit Roy <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:


Dear Mr. Iyer

Did you ever consider that many of these immense values, knowledge, culture, tradition, devotion, serenity and so on that prevailed thousands of years ago thoroughly deserved to be destroyed and to never be revived ?

Do you desire an India which is a modern nation based on equality and scientifc, or an India which is run by a cartel of cunning religious babas and gurus who are simply organsiing the foolish simple uneducated masses into VOTE BANKS for religious obscurantists.


Sarbajit Roy


On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 10:46 AM Gopalkrishnan iyer <iyer_ga@yahoo.com> wrote:
I, for one, do not mind to be fooled to vote for Modi to revive and realize our immense values, knowledge, culture, tradition, devotion, serinity and so on that prevailed thousands of years ago which have been systematically eroded into(destroyed ?)

On Friday, 26 April, 2019, 9:59:45 pm IST, Sarbajit Roy <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:


In reply to your question - " Please tell us that if not Modi then to whom the people should vote?"


You can simply vote for Mr. Modi to buy 1 and get 11 scamsters free along with Amit Shah (and son) as 12th man.

1. Subhash "Zee" Chandra
2. Nirav Modi
3. Mehul "bhai" Choksi
4. Mukesh Ambani
5. Gautam Adani
6. Hari Sankaran
7. Vijay "Good times" Mallya
8. Kumarmangalam Birla
9. Rafale jet (Dassault)
10. Arun Jaitley
11. Ajit Doval


On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 5:23 PM Girender Singh <girinder_singh@yahoo.com> wrote:
Please tell us that if not Modi then to whom the people should vote?

On Tuesday, 23 April, 2019, 12:44:38 am IST, Sarbajit Roy <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:


Dear friend Prasad

We are puzzled to knwo where exactly "our" Modiji has built temples ?
Has he built one in Ayodhyya ? Can you account for the thousands of
crores which RSS took as donations to build that temple ? Or will
"your" Modiji account for it ?

Those were not illegal buildings, those were 300 and 400 year old
Hindu temples. How can temples be illegal buildings ? This is a gross
insult to Hindus from the man who threw his own wife onto the streets
and refused to acxknowledge her as such..

On 4/21/19, Prasad Lonari <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
> Dear Rajinder,
>
> As per your above information about Modi is " Meaning less ".It shows your
> hateness about our pride Modi.
> Actually Mr.Rajinder he has taken up initiative to Build Temples &
> Safeguard old historical temples.He has pulled down & destroyed the illegal
> houses built-up by public in temple areas.Now he is destroying such
> buildings.
>
> Hence we appreciate our Modiji & we Always Vote for Modi ....Bharat Mata ki
> Jai...Vande Mataram 🇮🇳💪✌️🇮🇳
>
>
> On Sun 21 Apr, 2019, 4:53 PM Rajinder Dalvi,
> <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Benares / Kashi is among the most sacred places in Hinduism.
>>
>> Yet, in last 9 months this Babur Modi has destroyed and pulled down over
>> 150 temples in Kashi by an Ahmedabad based construction company and paid
>> them Rs. 697 crores to do so with more to follow.
>>
>> It is high time Hindus of Kashi, and Hindustan, see through these *Babur
>> ke aulaad* and trounce them at the hustings. There is absolutely no hope
>> that these deceivers will construct any temple at Ayodhyya.
>> Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
>> Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
>> Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
>> Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
>> WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
>

[IAC#RG] JOURNALISTS NEED ENTRY BARRIER



To

India Against Corruption




                                                                                                            JOURNALISTS NEED ENTRY BARRIER

There are two professions in India and all over the world that seem to have no entry barrier. Anyone can get in and get out at any time.

One is politics ( yes, people from all sorts of background with or without formal education    enter politics   at various levels these days to get powerful positions and make money and are much different from the earlier  days when people entered politics sacrificing their personal interests for the national good)  and journalism ( Yes. Job seekers largely view  journalism  as profession and more as an earning opportunity and  for getting known , rather than viewing it as an opportunity to set the wrong

to become right and fight for larger national good).

Both politicians and journalists largely influence the mood of the country men and except for a very few, they do not perceive and recognize the lofty ideals of these two professions, which should reflect on their desire for noble cause.

This scenario is much different from the scenario in India a few decades back when   most politicians and journalists were viewed as role models for younger generation. No doubt, India is suffering today heavily due to the fall in the standards of politicians and journalists which is certainly not a flattering remark but very much close to the ground realities.

Frequently ,politicians and journalists are accused of heinous crimes like rape, corrupt practices. collusion with criminals etc.

While, by and large ,people seem to have reconciled themselves to the negative view that politicians in India cannot anymore reach the standards  that were set up in the pre independent days and the years immediately after post independence, there is still hope amongst the people  that  the journalists should and will play the role expected of them. While it is a fact that most of the journalists seem to behave like half politicians taking sides and having prejudiced views, there are still a few cases where journalists uphold the value systems as per the expectations of people. But, they are few and far between  and do not get the attention , popularity and publicity that they deserve.

Today, it is very well known that several business houses , politicians,  motivated activists group and religious institutions own media houses in both print and visual media. They recruit only such journalists, who can bend their views to meet the needs and expectations of the promoters, most of whom have vested interests. The journalists who are not willing to compromise often find themselves out of jobs and even driven in  to poverty conditions.

It is even increasingly becoming difficult to get  articles and investigative reports published in media ,unless it would meet the needs of the promoters in one way or the other.

While journalists and journalism in India have some code of conduct and several organisations for journalists exist,  which are supposed to uphold the journalistic ethics, they do not serve the intended purpose, as they are controlled and managed by media representatives who belong to various media that are not independent in approach and viewpoint.

What is increasingly disturbing is the fact that several allegations appear in various newspapers and journals and television media about events and people, which are not substantiated by proof . Many times, it is said that the information has come from " from reliable sources" and nobody knows as to which is the reliable source and what is the real source of information.

When the journalists are challenged to prove their source of information, they claim media freedom and say that they have  a right to protect someone by not revea ling their identity  who gave them the information and they have the liberty not to reveal the source of data and information. Is this not an unethical practice?This  causes suspicion.

When the complaints are made about motivated campaign in the media, the association of journalists ,which are many in number, join together and conduct protest meetings and morchas condemning the government and those who make complaints. Again, such protest of the journalists are prominently published by the media,but not the point of view of those who lodge the complaints.

Under such  circumstances, one gets an impression that media has become a profession that is free for all and concept of media freedom has gone to ridiculous level. Even the government often hesitates to take action against erring journalists fearing media backlash.

While science and  technologies are rapidly developing, and specialisations in every field have become a necessity to comment about the developments knowledgeably, many journalists seem to think that they can comment on any subject where they have no particular expertise. We often see TV debates conducted by the same anchor who comment on issues related to nuclear power on one day, irrigation problem on another day, farmers woes on   third day and educational policies on the next day. They often invite politicians and activists to speak on such issues, who may not have particular expertise in the field.

Indian journalism is now sliding dangerously and it is not good for the social fabric of the country in the short and long run.

Happily, there are still highly principled journalists in our midst and they need to assert themselves and stem the rot and  concerned people should support such journalists of high standard. The cry that the journalists need  entry barrier  would become louder in the coming period.


N.S.Venkataraman

Nandini Voice For The Deprived

nandinivoice.com



Thursday, June 6, 2019

Re: [IAC#RG] What is Rahul's strategy?

Should we even bother about his strategy ?

As long as Rahul Gandhi, or for that matter any Gandhii, leads the Congress Party, the Amit Shah-Ajit Doval mafia is certain to rule this nation.

It would be far better for the Congress that Rahul Gandhi is put to sleep so that a new generation of Indians can take over that venerable party now steeped in corruption.

In any case, Hindus everywhere are shunning the Congress because of Rahul Gandhi.


On Thu, Jun 6, 2019 at 10:57 PM Venkatraman Ns <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
To
India Against Corruption
                                                                                                               What is Rahul's strategy

After the defeat, Rahul says he will quit as President of Congress party. As usual, congress men plead with him to stay and he would "firmly refuse". 

Finally he will quit. 

Then, someone will be appointed President who has the direct and indirect blessings of Sonia's family. He will stay as President for a few months, when Sonia's "disciples" will slowly start criticizing the new President and the criticism will become louder and louder. Then, they would start a campaign that Rahul's leadership was the best and plead with Rahul to come back. 

Then, Rahul would "reluctantly" come back. The control of the dynasty over the Congress party will continue for ever, whatever may be the fortunes of Congress party. 

N.S.Venkataraman 
Chennai
Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in

Re: [IAC#RG] Are we Hindus fools to vote for Modi ?

Dear Mr. Iyer

Did you ever consider that many of these immense values, knowledge, culture, tradition, devotion, serenity and so on that prevailed thousands of years ago thoroughly deserved to be destroyed and to never be revived ?

Do you desire an India which is a modern nation based on equality and scientifc, or an India which is run by a cartel of cunning religious babas and gurus who are simply organsiing the foolish simple uneducated masses into VOTE BANKS for religious obscurantists.


Sarbajit Roy


On Mon, May 27, 2019 at 10:46 AM Gopalkrishnan iyer <iyer_ga@yahoo.com> wrote:
I, for one, do not mind to be fooled to vote for Modi to revive and realize our immense values, knowledge, culture, tradition, devotion, serinity and so on that prevailed thousands of years ago which have been systematically eroded into(destroyed ?)

On Friday, 26 April, 2019, 9:59:45 pm IST, Sarbajit Roy <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:


In reply to your question - " Please tell us that if not Modi then to whom the people should vote?"


You can simply vote for Mr. Modi to buy 1 and get 11 scamsters free along with Amit Shah (and son) as 12th man.

1. Subhash "Zee" Chandra
2. Nirav Modi
3. Mehul "bhai" Choksi
4. Mukesh Ambani
5. Gautam Adani
6. Hari Sankaran
7. Vijay "Good times" Mallya
8. Kumarmangalam Birla
9. Rafale jet (Dassault)
10. Arun Jaitley
11. Ajit Doval


On Wed, Apr 24, 2019 at 5:23 PM Girender Singh <girinder_singh@yahoo.com> wrote:
Please tell us that if not Modi then to whom the people should vote?

On Tuesday, 23 April, 2019, 12:44:38 am IST, Sarbajit Roy <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:


Dear friend Prasad

We are puzzled to knwo where exactly "our" Modiji has built temples ?
Has he built one in Ayodhyya ? Can you account for the thousands of
crores which RSS took as donations to build that temple ? Or will
"your" Modiji account for it ?

Those were not illegal buildings, those were 300 and 400 year old
Hindu temples. How can temples be illegal buildings ? This is a gross
insult to Hindus from the man who threw his own wife onto the streets
and refused to acxknowledge her as such..

On 4/21/19, Prasad Lonari <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
> Dear Rajinder,
>
> As per your above information about Modi is " Meaning less ".It shows your
> hateness about our pride Modi.
> Actually Mr.Rajinder he has taken up initiative to Build Temples &
> Safeguard old historical temples.He has pulled down & destroyed the illegal
> houses built-up by public in temple areas.Now he is destroying such
> buildings.
>
> Hence we appreciate our Modiji & we Always Vote for Modi ....Bharat Mata ki
> Jai...Vande Mataram 🇮🇳💪✌️🇮🇳
>
>
> On Sun 21 Apr, 2019, 4:53 PM Rajinder Dalvi,
> <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Benares / Kashi is among the most sacred places in Hinduism.
>>
>> Yet, in last 9 months this Babur Modi has destroyed and pulled down over
>> 150 temples in Kashi by an Ahmedabad based construction company and paid
>> them Rs. 697 crores to do so with more to follow.
>>
>> It is high time Hindus of Kashi, and Hindustan, see through these *Babur
>> ke aulaad* and trounce them at the hustings. There is absolutely no hope
>> that these deceivers will construct any temple at Ayodhyya.
>> Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
>> Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
>> Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
>> Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
>> WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in
>

[IAC#RG] Your disposal of CPGRAMS MEAPD/E/2019/00947

Shri G. Balasubramanian
Joint Secretary / MEA

Sir

I refer to your disposal of my grievance (after nearly 4 months) with the comment "The complainant has himself acknowledged that it was an inadvertent slip of tongue."

The state of my mind is neither here nor there, when the prayer was for "an official correction is made immediately to this inadvertent slip on part of our ld. ambassador, since the said news channel is available in India also as a satellite TV channel on Tata Sky etc. "

Let me also say that I exercised great restraint and civility considering the arrogant, self-righteous and smug manner in which the Ld. Ambassador usually conducts himself on international television news channels which are avalable in India.

I would also suggest that MEA sheds some of its own arrogance, and shows a liitle consideration  and respect for alert citizens who bring such inadvertences to the notice of our administrative clerks to process.

PS: If this had been North Korea, Mr. Kwatra would have been dog food by now.

sincerely.



Sarbajit Roy
Citizen watchdog

Tuesday, May 28, 2019

[IAC#RG] What is Rahul's strategy?

To
India Against Corruption
                                                                                                               What is Rahul's strategy

After the defeat, Rahul says he will quit as President of Congress party. As usual, congress men plead with him to stay and he would "firmly refuse". 

Finally he will quit. 

Then, someone will be appointed President who has the direct and indirect blessings of Sonia's family. He will stay as President for a few months, when Sonia's "disciples" will slowly start criticizing the new President and the criticism will become louder and louder. Then, they would start a campaign that Rahul's leadership was the best and plead with Rahul to come back. 

Then, Rahul would "reluctantly" come back. The control of the dynasty over the Congress party will continue for ever, whatever may be the fortunes of Congress party. 

N.S.Venkataraman 
Chennai

Saturday, May 25, 2019

Re: [IAC#RG] Are we Hindus fools to vote for Modi ?

Dear Joya,

I appreciate your highlighting the facts, and also your arguments; many of your mentioned facts may not be very well-known to many because they are not presented to the public quite liberally.

I also find there are many good thinkers, analysts and wise people in this group/discussion forum. All the wisdom of such nice people should be somehow used for the uplift of deprived masses that seems not quite possible currently. I hope someday it may be possible somehow!

Regards,
Jasveer Singh



On Sat, 25 May 2019, 16:05 Prodipto Roy, <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
Here's what I think,  or know about the situation. I am not a Muslim but I appreciate some aspects of their society in India,  as well as those of all other religious groups in India. 

Population growth amongst Muslims:

Muslims may have the right from  Al-Quran to marry more than one wife. It was a historical necessity following the fierce wars of the 7-10th centuries in what we call the near-East.  But I myself have several Hindu friends and acquaintances (senior IPS/IAS officers,  and ex-rajas)  who have one or two wives,  some from respectable families of the same caste,  the women having been abandoned by their own husbands for other women,  others from lower castes. So, I can establish the fact that Hindus also have several wives, both in rural and urban areas. Among Kulin  Brahmins of Bengal where only hypergamy is allowed,  males till recently had so many wives that they couldn't remember their names and locations. The wives therefore could not establish their rights,  except to die with Brahminical funeral rites.  There is no count or recognition of the legal or illegitimate children they spawned.  (However,  presently,  most Muslims I know,  in academia,  have only one wife!)  

The difference between the two communities is that in Islamic polygamy,  all the wives have rights to maintenance for themselves and their children and a share in the husband's property if he predeceases them. Among my Hindu friends,  the 'other' wives may  be called 'Rakhael',  'kept',  even 'Randi'  by society and the first wife.  I don't think they have a legal right to maintenance for themselves and the children they may produce.  Look at the trouble N. D. Tewari's  son had to claim his paternal origin and rights,  which he denied and which were ultimately settled by DNA tests.  

Secondly,  the main reason that Muslims have a higher population growth rate is not because they have significantly more children but because they do not practice female foetal abortion,  killing of newborn girl children or starvation and denial of medical aid to female infants.  I personally know Haryanvi Hindus who have had to rescue and rear their nieces from parents who wanted them to die of neglect, disease or starvation. Just look at the under-5 male-female child ratio in districts like Jhajjar,  next door to Delhi,  in Census 2011. Also in prosperous,  urban Gujarat.  Muslim populations,  both rural and urban,  are also poorer,  so they have less access to FW and modern birth control facilities.  Please do examine these statistics if you want to debate with me. 

Muslims of both sexes can perform talaq. Husbands do not have to indulge either in bride burning, wife killing,  or abandonment of female children,  and all girls go to school, at least till they become literate. So,  in the Muslim society that I'm familiar with,  girls and women receive the same care,  academic encouragement and rights as their male cohorts. 

Among Paharis in Uttarakhand and Himachal,  Hindu women of all castes can and do practice polyandry. Like Draupadi  did. Do you object to that too? 

UCC:

Hindus in India have the most exclusive Civil Code,  which only applies to themselves! Its primary focus is the maintenance of the HUF. For example,  on inheritance matters,  till recently daughters,  married or otherwise,  seldom had paternal property rights granted to them after a parent's death. Only male heirs had these. Widows had rights only to maintenance.  After decades of work by economist Bina Agarwal  and others, widows and daughters were granted their legitimate property rights from the Supreme Court of India,  including rights to agricultural lands. 

Article 370:

This Article was the basis on which Maharaja Hari Singh acceded to the Union of India. Its abrogation cannot be done by any authority or body other than the Constituent Assembly of J&K state. However,  the Constituent Assembly was dissolved in 1951 after the forced accession to India. Please remember,  those who wanted Azaadi then and those who framed J&K's separate Constitution were mostly Kashmiri pandits,  Dogras and other Hindus. All Kashmiris,  Hindu,  Muslim,  Buddhist and tribal, felt they had a different ethnic and cultural identity from the Hindu dominated,  caste stratified regions of the rest of India. 

There are therefore grave implications of the unilateral abrogation of Article 370 by the Republic of India. The case that would be put forward against it would then go on indefinitely for decades and reach international courts and the UN again particularly since it would be cruelly enforced by an army under AFSPA and untrained paramilitaries like BSF, CRPF,  ITBD AND CISF. IN FACT,  other nations including our 'Enemy No. 1' China,  and world power alliances under a UN mandate could actually take over the area to conduct that referendum that every Kashmiri on both sides of the LOC knows was promised to his/her people. 

Would that solve any problems for India,  Kashmir,  or the region?? 

Kindly put aside your Hindu-centric  male chauvinist worldview for a while,  study the issues and historical origin of all points of view carefully and rethink your absolutist, and,  in my perception,  'RSS influenced' solutions to these problems. Solutions have to be acceptable to all parties in a political dispute in this day and age,  particularly one that has led to armed conflict. And do remember,  the nuclear option touted by the unlettered saffron brigade would destroy your own North India completely. 

Joya Roy

On Tue, 21 May 2019, 13:06 Girender Singh, <girinder_singh@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ms. Joya Roy,
What you would like to advice on the following issues to be faced after few decades in India and then may be Me and You would not be on scene?
1. Population outworst mainly by a single religion for which the knowledge starts and ends on their fanatic religious book?
2. Common Civil Code?
3. Article 370?
4. Why, the intellectuals like you never spoke on such agenda's in past 6 decades?

regards
GS

On Monday, 20 May, 2019, 1:38:47 pm IST, Prodipto Roy <prodipto.r@gmail.com> wrote:


Maine pramana nahi di,  kya?  North Indians speak an Indo-European language.  They like to think they descend from 'Aryans'  whereas their genes could come from central Asia,  Turkey,  Iran,  central,  Balkan or Mediterranean Europe, or even from the Arabian peninsula.  Yet they look down on South Indians on the basis of colour,  imagined race and language.   It's atrocious to expect anyone to adopt a language that is from a completely different family group, besides being bereft of centuries old literary tradition like Hindi,  to belong to a country which is a federation of ancient and new cultures.  You must be too young to know that in the mid-60s Tamils  rioted against imposition of a language that was foreign to them and devoid of their own history,  saying they would secede if Hindi became an official language. 

I'm pointing to the incapability of North Indians of understanding the cultural diversity of India.  This  insensitivity,  arrogance and distorted view of country,  it's creeds,  geography,  history and politics,  handicaps them in understanding their North-eastern,  Eastern,  tribal,  Southern,  and western co-ciitizens as well as from learning new things.  So  wake-up,  my Hindi speaking countrymen and women and try to learn a little more about the ancient history and genetics of the Indian population. 

Modi and his cohorts represent the business class of a certain  section of North-western Indians. Their status has been raised by the Hindutwa brigade,  run by upper castes and their Banar sends,   who wish to impose Brahminical values on the polity,   Many of us do not respect the values they hold,  their policies,  projects and capacity to rabble rouse in the name of religion -  to use anything to gain political,  personal,  and business ends,  ignoring the egalitarian,  equalising currents that led to vibrant modern democracies.  Sorry about that. 

Joya Roy

On Mon, 20 May 2019, 12:18 Girender Singh, <girinder_singh@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ms Joya Roy,
I completely disagree with you. You may be wise in collection of data's and express the same from the historians who never put the right history of Indian peoples that all due to the administration of Congress like parties and netaj's like Jinna and other's your inner heart will include them. I never praised north - the picture of Bharat region wise. We north Indian's think that peoples in south have discouraged the public to pronounce Vande Mataram, Hindi Learning and on National Anthem, untill you people don't read hindi literatures, the thinking alike you would never change, nothing to say more.
The general elections would show you the right path and right history of Akhand Bharat in coming year's. I request you please not to hate North Indians and further not to divide the country of castism, regionalism and wrong data's of some biased historians.
Thanks
Girendra Singh

On Tuesday, 14 May, 2019, 8:51:20 pm IST, Prodipto Roy <prodipto.r@gmail.com> wrote:


Shri G. Singh's reply exemplifies the problem with North Indians - uski pramana deti hai - they still think they are the heart and soul of India despite the assurances of cultural equality given in the Constitution we accept and the historical fact of the North's supine acquiescence to every light skinned infiltrator,  adventurer,  invader and colonizer that ever reached the so-called heart of India from the north-west Hindu-Kush passes or Western seas. Starting with the Etruscans from the Mediterranean (see historian Prof.  Nilkantha Shastri on this) Ephthalites,   'Aryans'  from Iran and central Asia,  Kushana,  Yueh Chi and Huna tribes,  Bactrian Greeks,  Gurjaras, Ahom from South East Asia, down to the Timurid Uzbeks and Afghans who ruled this same Aryavarta for 1000 years with the full acquiescence of its numerous 'Hindu' Kings and princes.

The myth of creation of Rajput clans in the agnikund at Mt. Abu was invented by opportunist Brahmins seeking jobs at the courts of these ersatz newly baptised 'kings'. Hence also the pillar of Heliodorus,  a Greek general made into an Indian chieftain, as a votary of Vishnu, near Sanchi.

Our puranas expunged all references to the great Magadhi Buddhist emperor Ashoka,  who was rediscovered for India only by British epigraphicist James Princeps in the 19th century,  while his monuments were uncovered by a series of British and German amateur and professional archaelogists.

What I am pointing to is the reliance on myth as history in North India and privileging of an upper caste cultural ethos and it's literature that subsists till today ignoring the great nations of pre- 'Hindu' societies now reduced to SCs and STs in the upper caste world view.

Deceit and deception have left their mark on the thinking of most North Indian upper caste 'Hindus', except for the genuine scholars amongst them. Hence we cannot accept an election Commissioner from the North or West who cowtows in supine deference to the party in power of the moment.

Joya Roy

Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"
Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net"
Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists"
Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user
WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in

[IAC#RG] Fwd: Are we Hindus fools to vote for Modi ?


---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: Prodipto Roy <prodipto.r@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 25 May 2019, 14:14
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Are we Hindus fools to vote for Modi ?
To: Girinder Singh <girinder_singh@yahoo.com>


This is not true at all!  All the EVMs were rigged at the end!  20,00,000 EVMs (2 million,  according to an RTI that has led to a writ petition in Mumbai HC) supplied by 3 companies to this EC are not in the inventory of the EC.  EC cannot say where they are.  Hence there were unregistered EVMs or those with duplicate numbers to the ones in polling booths being shifted all over the countryside.  Haven't you seen the videos of irate and disturbed voters finding EVMs loaded in private vehicles,  in govt. vehicles without papers outside strong rooms,  in BJP workers' houses (one such shown in Kalka ji near my house), in Gujarat,  Faridabad,  and even dumped on the roadside in places? Have you not seen those videos,  Bhai?   They were not taken by professionals,  and people have no right to intercept the machines before they are taken away by the administration.  There's nothing they can do if the entire administrative and political class are corrupt and function outside the Constitution. Or too scared, like the CEC himself,  who has two damning files being held by Home ministry above his head as threats. 

This has been a historic fraud on the people of India. Their votes have been stolen.  There is no democracy left under these people.  

I'm not saying that other parties would not have done the same thing if they had the power to control the supine EC,  the courts,  the district administrations and the police. I have no preferences,  they are all crooks,  and conscience-less.  But in Delhi,  whatever be our views on Kejriwal and Co., large numbers who benefited from AAP's govt. school improvements, for standing up to Ambani and reducing our electricity bills, and for setting up mohalla clinics for the poor,  all voted en masse for AAP but the EVMs were removed from the so-called strong rooms and replaced with pre-rigged ones at the end. So India did become a Banana Republic under this regime. 

I have no hope for this country if the majority community,  at least the ones who call the shots,  have no values beyond personal gains,  are adept at cheating,  using public money for personal victories,  function beyond the law,  and worst,  have sunk the people of India into grievous debt to International financial institutions for all time to come. Don't you read the newspapers who do report that,  at least? Don't you know who benefited most from demonetization?  That carefully synchronised and perfectly implemented plan to benefit a certain number of  people at the expense of the rest of India. I'm sorry,  but if Indians have become sheep then they are fools.  But in voting they were using their right to teach this government a lesson but were robbed of the opportunity to do so. This election was totally, shamelessly rigged!

Joya Roy

On Sat, 25 May 2019, 11:22 Girinder Singh, <girinder_singh@yahoo.com> wrote:
No need to counter Girendra Singh's post as the citizens of India have given their verdict to Mr Modi!
The answer has been given to Tukre Tukre gang and their supporters! The post have been proved rubbish and it's time to look biased writers within themselves!

Girendra Singh 

Sent from my Apple iPhone

On 21-May-2019, at 8:14 PM, Prodipto Roy <prodipto.r@gmail.com> wrote:

The real problem is the rabid, anti-Muslim,  anti-anybody attitude in a  democratic country, instigated by distortion of history and a fascist political agenda. In India, atheists,  Jains,  Buddhists,  Brahma Samajis (like my family), Christians, some Vedantics, Adi Dharma tribal people,  many other religionists,  all ignore the latter day 'Hindu'  gods as entities we can take ashray (refuge) in. We believe these gods exist. We even propitiate them.  Also thousands of local devis  and devatas  of land,  sky,  forest and mountains. They are symbols of certain powers we can ourselves manifest. But we don't believe they created the world or can protect anyone or anything. They also pass away. Better to rely on our own karma -  purifying the bad karmas,  mental and physical,  gathering better karma,  by not harming,  hurting anyone. For example,  mob lynching people for any reason,  stealing their cows,  goods, land, houses,  raping them,  is a foolish coward's act.  It will lead to the same thing happening to us in future lives. When we are a minority somewhere. Don't Hindus believe in karma?  

As for Muslims and other 'Mlecchhas',  if it wasn't for the Sakas,  Kushana,  Bactrians, Afghans, Tughlaks and Mughals,  British,  French and Portuguese visiting us,  settling down here,  we wouldn't have apples of any kind (Babar brought them from Samarkand),    khubanis,  plums, dates,  walnuts,  almonds, melons,  saffron,  potatoes,  tomatoes,  green chillies,  hing,  jeera,  Kabuli  channa,  alphonso mangoes,  coffee and tea,  let alone paper, graphite,  coinage, canal networks, modern antibiotics,  trains, railways,  steel bridges, power lines, telecommunications,  the internal combustion engine, wrist watches, electricity, computers,  the list is endless. 

Be happy and thankful for what you received from  these immigrants and conquerors. Rediscover the wonders of your own culture and don't denigrate others,  their books,  their language and their gods. Correct the faults of your own civilizational habits like maltreating animals, sacrificing them to false gods,  putting down lower castes, treating any citizen as nonhumans. 

In the recent elections in UP,  your Hindi heartland, maybe,  saffron mobs threatened Muslim voters, pushed them away from polling booths,  abused them physically and verbally, denied them there rights as citizens which they undeniably are.  Your banar senas of unemployed youth do this work for you.  You think you can bathe in the Kumbh to rid yourselves of the sins of murder,  theft,  rape, but no genuine  Hindu scripture says that's really possible without deep prayashchit. Read the Yoga Sutras.  Don't follow fake yogis.  That's my final advice to you. 

On Tue, 21 May 2019, 17:16 Girender Singh, <girinder_singh@yahoo.com> wrote:
Thanks Ms Joya,
I understood your view point too. You didn't gave any solution for the burning problems of country rather narrated your view point.
You just post a post with Title -- Are we Muslims fools to vote for Rahul...... you will get your answer quickly......
Thanks again


On Tuesday, 21 May, 2019, 3:57:57 pm IST, Prodipto Roy <prodipto.r@gmail.com> wrote:


Here's what I think,  or know about the situation. I am not a Muslim but I appreciate some aspects of their society in India,  as well as those of all other religious groups in India. 

Population growth amongst Muslims:

Muslims may have the right from  Al-Quran to marry more than one wife. It was a historical necessity following the fierce wars of the 7-10th centuries in what we call the near-East.  But I myself have several Hindu friends and acquaintances (senior IPS/IAS officers,  and ex-rajas)  who have one or two wives,  some from respectable families of the same caste,  the women having been abandoned by their own husbands for other women,  others from lower castes. So, I can establish the fact that Hindus also have several wives, both in rural and urban areas. Among Kulin  Brahmins of Bengal where only hypergamy is allowed,  males till recently had so many wives that they couldn't remember their names and locations. The wives therefore could not establish their rights,  except to die with Brahminical funeral rites.  There is no count or recognition of the legal or illegitimate children they spawned.  (However,  presently,  most Muslims I know,  in academia,  have only one wife!)  

The difference between the two communities is that in Islamic polygamy,  all the wives have rights to maintenance for themselves and their children and a share in the husband's property if he predeceases them. Among my Hindu friends,  the 'other' wives may  be called 'Rakhael',  'kept',  even 'Randi'  by society and the first wife.  I don't think they have a legal right to maintenance for themselves and the children they may produce.  Look at the trouble N. D. Tewari's  son had to claim his paternal origin and rights,  which he denied and which were ultimately settled by DNA tests.  

Secondly,  the main reason that Muslims have a higher population growth rate is not because they have significantly more children but because they do not practice female foetal abortion,  killing of newborn girl children or starvation and denial of medical aid to female infants.  I personally know Haryanvi Hindus who have had to rescue and rear their nieces from parents who wanted them to die of neglect, disease or starvation. Just look at the under-5 male-female child ratio in districts like Jhajjar,  next door to Delhi,  in Census 2011. Also in prosperous,  urban Gujarat.  Muslim populations,  both rural and urban,  are also poorer,  so they have less access to FW and modern birth control facilities.  Please do examine these statistics if you want to debate with me. 

Muslims of both sexes can perform talaq. Husbands do not have to indulge either in bride burning, wife killing,  or abandonment of female children,  and all girls go to school, at least till they become literate. So,  in the Muslim society that I'm familiar with,  girls and women receive the same care,  academic encouragement and rights as their male cohorts. 

Among Paharis in Uttarakhand and Himachal,  Hindu women of all castes can and do practice polyandry. Like Draupadi  did. Do you object to that too? 

UCC:

Hindus in India have the most exclusive Civil Code,  which only applies to themselves! Its primary focus is the maintenance of the HUF. For example,  on inheritance matters,  till recently daughters,  married or otherwise,  seldom had paternal property rights granted to them after a parent's death. Only male heirs had these. Widows had rights only to maintenance.  After decades of work by economist Bina Agarwal  and others, widows and daughters were granted their legitimate property rights from the Supreme Court of India,  including rights to agricultural lands. 

Article 370:

This Article was the basis on which Maharaja Hari Singh acceded to the Union of India. Its abrogation cannot be done by any authority or body other than the Constituent Assembly of J&K state. However,  the Constituent Assembly was dissolved in 1951 after the forced accession to India. Please remember,  those who wanted Azaadi then and those who framed J&K's separate Constitution were mostly Kashmiri pandits,  Dogras and other Hindus. All Kashmiris,  Hindu,  Muslim,  Buddhist and tribal, felt they had a different ethnic and cultural identity from the Hindu dominated,  caste stratified regions of the rest of India. 

There are therefore grave implications of the unilateral abrogation of Article 370 by the Republic of India. The case that would be put forward against it would then go on indefinitely for decades and reach international courts and the UN again particularly since it would be cruelly enforced by an army under AFSPA and untrained paramilitaries like BSF, CRPF,  ITBD AND CISF. IN FACT,  other nations including our 'Enemy No. 1' China,  and world power alliances under a UN mandate could actually take over the area to conduct that referendum that every Kashmiri on both sides of the LOC knows was promised to his/her people. 

Would that solve any problems for India,  Kashmir,  or the region?? 

Kindly put aside your Hindu-centric  male chauvinist worldview for a while,  study the issues and historical origin of all points of view carefully and rethink your absolutist, and,  in my perception,  'RSS influenced' solutions to these problems. Solutions have to be acceptable to all parties in a political dispute in this day and age,  particularly one that has led to armed conflict. And do remember,  the nuclear option touted by the unlettered saffron brigade would destroy your own North India completely. 

Joya Roy

On Tue, 21 May 2019, 13:06 Girender Singh, <girinder_singh@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ms. Joya Roy,
What you would like to advice on the following issues to be faced after few decades in India and then may be Me and You would not be on scene?
1. Population outworst mainly by a single religion for which the knowledge starts and ends on their fanatic religious book?
2. Common Civil Code?
3. Article 370?
4. Why, the intellectuals like you never spoke on such agenda's in past 6 decades?

regards
GS

On Monday, 20 May, 2019, 1:38:47 pm IST, Prodipto Roy <prodipto.r@gmail.com> wrote:


Maine pramana nahi di,  kya?  North Indians speak an Indo-European language.  They like to think they descend from 'Aryans'  whereas their genes could come from central Asia,  Turkey,  Iran,  central,  Balkan or Mediterranean Europe, or even from the Arabian peninsula.  Yet they look down on South Indians on the basis of colour,  imagined race and language.   It's atrocious to expect anyone to adopt a language that is from a completely different family group, besides being bereft of centuries old literary tradition like Hindi,  to belong to a country which is a federation of ancient and new cultures.  You must be too young to know that in the mid-60s Tamils  rioted against imposition of a language that was foreign to them and devoid of their own history,  saying they would secede if Hindi became an official language. 

I'm pointing to the incapability of North Indians of understanding the cultural diversity of India.  This  insensitivity,  arrogance and distorted view of country,  it's creeds,  geography,  history and politics,  handicaps them in understanding their North-eastern,  Eastern,  tribal,  Southern,  and western co-ciitizens as well as from learning new things.  So  wake-up,  my Hindi speaking countrymen and women and try to learn a little more about the ancient history and genetics of the Indian population. 

Modi and his cohorts represent the business class of a certain  section of North-western Indians. Their status has been raised by the Hindutwa brigade,  run by upper castes and their Banar sends,   who wish to impose Brahminical values on the polity,   Many of us do not respect the values they hold,  their policies,  projects and capacity to rabble rouse in the name of religion -  to use anything to gain political,  personal,  and business ends,  ignoring the egalitarian,  equalising currents that led to vibrant modern democracies.  Sorry about that. 

Joya Roy

On Mon, 20 May 2019, 12:18 Girender Singh, <girinder_singh@yahoo.com> wrote:
Ms Joya Roy,
I completely disagree with you. You may be wise in collection of data's and express the same from the historians who never put the right history of Indian peoples that all due to the administration of Congress like parties and netaj's like Jinna and other's your inner heart will include them. I never praised north - the picture of Bharat region wise. We north Indian's think that peoples in south have discouraged the public to pronounce Vande Mataram, Hindi Learning and on National Anthem, untill you people don't read hindi literatures, the thinking alike you would never change, nothing to say more.
The general elections would show you the right path and right history of Akhand Bharat in coming year's. I request you please not to hate North Indians and further not to divide the country of castism, regionalism and wrong data's of some biased historians.
Thanks
Girendra Singh

On Tuesday, 14 May, 2019, 8:51:20 pm IST, Prodipto Roy <prodipto.r@gmail.com> wrote:


Shri G. Singh's reply exemplifies the problem with North Indians - uski pramana deti hai - they still think they are the heart and soul of India despite the assurances of cultural equality given in the Constitution we accept and the historical fact of the North's supine acquiescence to every light skinned infiltrator,  adventurer,  invader and colonizer that ever reached the so-called heart of India from the north-west Hindu-Kush passes or Western seas. Starting with the Etruscans from the Mediterranean (see historian Prof.  Nilkantha Shastri on this) Ephthalites,   'Aryans'  from Iran and central Asia,  Kushana,  Yueh Chi and Huna tribes,  Bactrian Greeks,  Gurjaras, Ahom from South East Asia, down to the Timurid Uzbeks and Afghans who ruled this same Aryavarta for 1000 years with the full acquiescence of its numerous 'Hindu' Kings and princes.

The myth of creation of Rajput clans in the agnikund at Mt. Abu was invented by opportunist Brahmins seeking jobs at the courts of these ersatz newly baptised 'kings'. Hence also the pillar of Heliodorus,  a Greek general made into an Indian chieftain, as a votary of Vishnu, near Sanchi.

Our puranas expunged all references to the great Magadhi Buddhist emperor Ashoka,  who was rediscovered for India only by British epigraphicist James Princeps in the 19th century,  while his monuments were uncovered by a series of British and German amateur and professional archaelogists.

What I am pointing to is the reliance on myth as history in North India and privileging of an upper caste cultural ethos and it's literature that subsists till today ignoring the great nations of pre- 'Hindu' societies now reduced to SCs and STs in the upper caste world view.

Deceit and deception have left their mark on the thinking of most North Indian upper caste 'Hindus', except for the genuine scholars amongst them. Hence we cannot accept an election Commissioner from the North or West who cowtows in supine deference to the party in power of the moment.

Joya Roy