http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=794077
BJP Should Project Modi in LS Elections: RamdevJaipur | Mar 31, 2013BJP should project Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi as its leader in the next Lok Sabha elections and change its priorities if it wants to return to power, Yoga guru Baba Ramdev said today.
He said that Congress can not return to power due to its anti-people policies but BJP can do it provided it changed its priorities.
"There is some possibility and space for BJP if it changes priorities and thinks about projecting Narendra Modi in next Lok Sabha elections," Ramdev said at a press conference here.
"Modi emerged as a robust leader who has become icon of development and courage and has zero tolerance for corruption but the final decision for his projection is to be taken by the BJP and Sangh," he said.
He said the country today is facing a leadership crisis and people are looking at individuals instead of political parties to bring about a positive change in politics.
"We believe that this will take place and the upcoming Lok Sabha election will be decisive in this direction," he said.
He alleged that the government could not take the issues of corruption and black money to a logical conclusion and that Congress has has no chance of forming the next government at the centre as it has betrayed the people.
"Congress has lost confidence among masses. So many scams worth crores of rupees have come to light and people will not vote for the party," he said.
He accused the Congress of misusing the CBI against its political rivals. "What SP Chief Mulayam Singh Yadav said against Congress and CBI is true," he said.
When asked about the possibility of coming together of all like-minded individuals like Anna Hazare, he said building up social and political pressure was necessary to bring a change in system.
"Anna is a good person but he wants to stay away from politics. Building up political pressure along with social pressure is necessary to change the system. Laws are made and amended in Parliament and not by saints or monks and social activist," he said.
Ramdev, who was in the city to hold meetings with his workers, said he was on a mission to play a big role in Lok Sabha election though he himself will not contest election.
"There should be our, at least, 300 members in parliament so that we can play decisive role and I am working in this direction," he said.Replying to a question about forming a political party, Ramdev said he was not in a position to comment on it but something conclusive will be announced in April or May.
He said that there are some good individuals in parties like Biju Janata Dal, Telugu Desam Party and Janata Dal (United).
There was a space in the nation for the third front, he said, adding that the situation will clear in some time.
He said that he will conduct mass meetings in May in Rajasthan.
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Monday, April 1, 2013
Re: [IAC#RG] BJP Should Project Modi in LS Elections: Ramdev
It is very sad that Baba Ramdev should support a person like Modi who was responsible for the carnage in Gujarat. No amount of so-
called growth and development can wash the stains off Modi. His dictatorial tendencies are also evident in Gujarat. It would be a
disaster for India if he came to power in Delhi.
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Re: [IAC#RG] BJP Should Project Modi in LS Elections: Ramdev
Dear Sarabjit,
Greetings.
As usual, you made very savvy observations with level-headed practical assessment of localised politics. However, state needs viable arrangement with stability of Govt. for a reasonable term.
Hindu, right-winger, patriotic, nationalist is a knotty combination; which a very large portion of voters, though they may find transient appeal in the concept, cannot truly comprehend.
NaMo seems to offer near-about conviction to above stated position. Any other person or parties don't. In the times of coalition, stability is a matter of dynamic arrangement where cheesy values are the first political sacrifice. Morarji Desai Govt. & 1st term of ABV are the examples. Coalition has its own 'mulayam' mechanism exploited by likes of 3Ms political leaders.
Its time to focus on the issue - If not NaMo then who else. If its NaMo, what to look for and where to focus.
regards,
-Joshi NM
On 1 April 2013 00:15, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr Hegde
Firstly let me take exception to your remarks about (presumably my) "communist minded politics". You are greatly mistaken if you believe I am a communist or any other form of leftist. On the contrary I am an extreme right wing patriotic TRUE Hindu nationalist who puts all the VHP pseudo-Hindu semi-illiiterate brigade in the shade
Secondly, let me clarify that from what I observe Mr. Narendra Modi is some sort of half-baked Hindu who doesn't seem to understand/follow ABC of Hinduism let alone the XYZ.
As I said there is a very simple test for who is a TRUE Hindu and who is not which can be answered in 2 and only 2 words..
a) Are you a Hindu ? Yes or No.
b) What is the name of your God ? _____
Thirdly about the BJP's governance. BJP is equally a corrupt party as the Congress. The series of MINING scams in BJP ruled states is complete and unimpeachable evidence of it. Karnataka, Goa, Gujarat you name it. I hate to drag the fair name of Mr. Bangaru Lakshman into this discussion or even Mr. Pramod Mahajan (who I got removed from the Cabinet for his extreme corruption)
Fourthly, about NaMo personally. Running Gujarat is very different from running rest of India. His style of working may not translate very well outside his own Gujarat and outside die-hard BJP loyalists. In any case lets see assembly results of Karnataka, Rajasthan, Delhi, MP etc. first
Fifthly, the analysis of Gujarat assembly results show that's NaMo's support base is shifting and is also 'spiky". BJP in Gujarat is also packed with criminals
SarbajitOn Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 11:42 PM, Prabhakar Hegde <m.prabhakar.hegde@gmail.com> wrote:I fully endorse with the opinion of Sri Baba Ramdevs opinion and it is not only his view it is the wishes of all people of this country who feel that Sri Narendra Modi can change the face of this great country. It is not by the congress party who ruled ruin and looted the wealth of this country .I strongly feel that the I A C should come out to support him not because he is a B J P candidate but to give a good governence to our countries administration he is a strong able candidatewho can motivate youths,womens and appeal mass of this country .So please keep aside your petty egoism and communist minded politics for God sake (if you want to do really a good to this nation) Jai Bharath matha KiOn Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 10:45 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"http://news.outlookindia.com/items.aspx?artid=794077
BJP Should Project Modi in LS Elections: RamdevJaipur | Mar 31, 2013BJP should project Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi as its leader in the next Lok Sabha elections and change its priorities if it wants to return to power, Yoga guru Baba Ramdev said today.
He said that Congress can not return to power due to its anti-people policies but BJP can do it provided it changed its priorities.
"There is some possibility and space for BJP if it changes priorities and thinks about projecting Narendra Modi in next Lok Sabha elections," Ramdev said at a press conference here.
"Modi emerged as a robust leader who has become icon of development and courage and has zero tolerance for corruption but the final decision for his projection is to be taken by the BJP and Sangh," he said.
He said the country today is facing a leadership crisis and people are looking at individuals instead of political parties to bring about a positive change in politics.
"We believe that this will take place and the upcoming Lok Sabha election will be decisive in this direction," he said.
He alleged that the government could not take the issues of corruption and black money to a logical conclusion and that Congress has has no chance of forming the next government at the centre as it has betrayed the people.
"Congress has lost confidence among masses. So many scams worth crores of rupees have come to light and people will not vote for the party," he said.
He accused the Congress of misusing the CBI against its political rivals. "What SP Chief Mulayam Singh Yadav said against Congress and CBI is true," he said.
When asked about the possibility of coming together of all like-minded individuals like Anna Hazare, he said building up social and political pressure was necessary to bring a change in system.
"Anna is a good person but he wants to stay away from politics. Building up political pressure along with social pressure is necessary to change the system. Laws are made and amended in Parliament and not by saints or monks and social activist," he said.
Ramdev, who was in the city to hold meetings with his workers, said he was on a mission to play a big role in Lok Sabha election though he himself will not contest election.
"There should be our, at least, 300 members in parliament so that we can play decisive role and I am working in this direction," he said.Replying to a question about forming a political party, Ramdev said he was not in a position to comment on it but something conclusive will be announced in April or May.
He said that there are some good individuals in parties like Biju Janata Dal, Telugu Desam Party and Janata Dal (United).
There was a space in the nation for the third front, he said, adding that the situation will clear in some time.
He said that he will conduct mass meetings in May in Rajasthan.
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Best Regards,
-Joshi NM
Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
Dear Friends,
We are debating the 'type of weapon' for 'self defence' based on 'threat perception'.
Well to the best of my knowledge, there are a 'permitted' bores for general public (including retired Govt servants) to have licensed weapons for self-defence. There is also a term called 'Prohibted bores' - This may include .315 rifles, stens, 9mm revolvers or pistols etc.Probably the poor MP had one of these.
In front of a mob; these individual weapons can prove ineffective -as was demonstrated in the mails; unless there is a coordinated action by a few like minded people - who are out there to defend their families / people around them. Even in a mob, people donot join to get killed. A few shot down or wounded; would make the crowd break up !!!
Even a well coordinated action by people with lesser calibre weapons, can produce wonders in peace and war; provided people show courage, determination and acumen in face of larger crowd better armed. Take case of CST - when a few policemen with inferior arms tried to take on Kasab!! He was ultimately caught by others, when brave Sub Inspector grappled with Kasab, unarmed.
About 'threat perception, let us take case of people staying on the borders. They have threat perception of 'enemy troops' coming with heavy weapons/ tanks etc. But they can not be allowed to have bazookas / anti-tank guns etc. That where the Nation (Army/ Navy/ Air Force) takes on.
In Ahmedabad (and in 1984 in DELHI / Kanpur / other places in India) THE NATION failed to take on its responsibility.
I feel by no justification; having a weapon of that calibre can be taken as for self defence. Those who are trying to justify or defend that action are probably for TRP or ..... I do not know. The whole legal system has been gone thru and NOW we say that so and so should be pardoned; are we as a NATION serious about those who lost their limbs / life / business and so many other sufferings for these 20 years. To protect the people is NATION's job (read Govt and its agenceis); when they fail - we have 1984 / 1993 / 2002 / 2008. Hopefully it will stop some day - at present we have POLICE of different shades and colours (depending on which state we are referring to); else there would have been NO EXODUS of NE Indian people from SOUTH or SIKHs from all over India - immediately after 1984 or KASMIRI PANDITS from J&K.
We must realise that it is an utter failure of AGENCIES responsible for your and my securit & safety.
Mer Bharat MAHAN
IS Gill, Veteran
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 11:58 AM, <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com> wrote:
The need of a weapon and its seriousness depends on the threat perception. If the threat comes from someone like say Ajmal Kasab, you do need an AK 47 plus a few hand grenades provided you are trained to use them. or when a threat is from a wild crowd, a licensed gun or a pistol is no good as we have seen in the Ehsan Jaffri case . The crowd tore him into pieces.I think the Mumbai riots were not an ordinary situation, it was a mixture of the two. where a licensed pistol or a shot gun would not have protected Dutt and his family. I think the SPG who protect the VVIPs as their daily duties do carry automatic weapons and not small firearms?. DevinderFrom: vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>; shadikatyalsearch <shadikatyal@yahoo.com>; VinodKumar <kv08535@yahoo.com>; "jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com" <jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com>; SatbirSingh <ssbedi1945@yahoo.com>; devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com
Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013, 14:45
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
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From: devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
To: "vasant sardesai" <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>, "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>, "shadikatyalsearch" <shadikatyal@yahoo.com>, "VinodKumar" <kv08535@yahoo.com>, "jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com" <jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com>, "SatbirSingh" <ssbedi1945@yahoo.com>
Date: Saturday, 30 March, 2013, 2:38 PM
The usual wepons of self defence for a citizen under threat shoud not be AK47 rifle. but a smaller weapon. DevinderFrom: vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>; shadikatyalsearch <shadikatyal@yahoo.com>; VinodKumar <kv08535@yahoo.com>; "jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com" <jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com>; SatbirSingh <ssbedi1945@yahoo.com>; devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com
Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013, 7:47
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
From: devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>, "shadikatyalsearch" <shadikatyal@yahoo.com>, "VinodKumar" <kv08535@yahoo.com>, "jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com" <jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com>, "SatbirSingh" <ssbedi1945@yahoo.com>
Date: Friday, 29 March, 2013, 8:41 PM
There does not have to be a physical attack for someone to retaliate in self defence. The threats (by Shive Sainaks???) and its fear would be taken as real and any measures to counter would be treated as taken in self defence. One does not see any doubt in this due to his parents social and political activities. Sanjay is convicted for having weapons illegally and also from a dubious source. If he had gone to the local police authority for a licence to have weapons and got them through a licence weapon supplier, there would have been no case to answer. DevinderFrom: vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Friday, 29 March 2013, 14:02
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists" Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in/
From: Kumar Arun <kumar2786@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
To: "IAC Sarabjit" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Friday, 29 March, 2013, 5:47 PM
Millions of Indian born in and around 1970 have very little idea how did Sanjay behave in hisown family. His father did what a typical father had been taught by the ancestors. The fact ofthe matter is that even many parents are not applying common sense in parenting even today.Having said that the arguments presented by Mr. Tewari on behalf of Shanti Bhushan, a strongpillar of Aam Aadmi Party (AAP), are like opening another pandora box. If every one start doingwhat Mr. Shanti Bhushan have suggested, there will be no law & order at all. Was there any Hinducaught defending like Sanjay? And, if a Hindu alleged by law officers, every one knows the out come.Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:16:49 +0530 From: wide.aware@gmail.com To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !1. had the state failed to protect Sanjay Dutt?Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists" Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in2. How come he has been safe all through in spite of being accused of terrorism and being out of jail most of the time?3. What about the hand grenades, witness testimonies that he asked a gangster to "do something" about the riots, providing support for the arms haul to be unpacked from concealed compartment and repacked into bags? He provided tools, safe location as well as bags.4. A full seven years after the fact, he was still intercepted courting a gangster and introducting "fans"5. What happened of the 2 AK-56s and hand grenades he had taken - in the sense of how did he get exonerated of that and his sole "mistake" seems to be one assault weapon for self-defense?That said, why were others who got weapons from that haul not prosecuted? Sharad Pawar says they chose not to. Why?The role of Shiv Sena, Sanjay Dutt and the gangsters is highly incestuous. They go around rioting, but Sarpotdar has WITH HIM a top hitman of the same gang as well as illegal weapons provided by a gangster network led by a Muslim. Said Gang later bombs innocents in "retaliation" for the riots in which their member too had armed and hobnobbed with perpetrators. Then, Sanjay Dutt gets into trouble motivated by the same riots and Shiv Sena saves his skin for fee, though obviously they had to be among the top intended recipients of any action said assault weapon got. Sanjay Dutt's relations with gangsters continue, including saving Vidhu Vinod Chopra from an extortion racket by telling Anees Ibrahim to lay off because he was among the few who supported him when he went to prison.Now, hearing the news of his sentencing, Shiv Sena went into default "save Sanjay Dutt" mode, but find their outrage and change loyalties on a dime at some point.The only thing I accept about Sanjay Dutt was that he was a fool and got into it for exactly the reasons he claimed. The others Shiv Sena in the riots as well as the Gand retaliating on "behalf of Muslims" were strategically in bed with each other while outwardly claiming outrage for "their" side of the line and killing unrelated innocents - largely to radicalize people and consolidate power.That said, Sanjay Dutt was stupid, but most definitely illegal in his actions.VidyutOn Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Naveen
Shri Shanti Bhushan has laid down the LAW.
You can argue with Mr. Bhushan but you cannot argue with the LAW.
If the State fails to protect a person, he is in his rights to acquire ALL MEANS REQUIRED TO DEFEND HIS LIFE
Mr,. Bhushan ECHOES IAC when we stand for right to bear arms freely and defend ourselves.
Mr. Bhushan's legal basis is IDENTICAL with IAC's because IPC is a 150 year old law almost as old as IAC (or Mr. Bhushan)
Sarbajit
Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"Dear All,Shanti Bhushan has certainly gone beyond senility and is showing signs of Dementia. His long article in the Hindu of 26th march is the latest example of that. Here he is with all his remnant legal acumen misplaced to the hilt, arguing for a summary reprieve for Sanjay Dutt. In this venture mr. Bhushan quoted the judgment of the supreme court wherein the court has mentioned that Sanjay Dutt's reason for possessing those prohibited guns and arsenal was self defence. Mr. Bhushan argues that it is not a crime to defend oneself even if the ammunition possessed by one is without licence.What a wonderful logic by this legal luminary who was once our Law Minister. I can only feel ashamed as an Indian that people of such calibre find there way to top positions in the country where they can play with the destiny of the people of this country. I am also deeply distressed that such people still manage to find a place in the public discourse no matter what level of atrophy their brain has reached.The Hindu, my most favourite newspaper, is also springing surprises like these every now and then.I request you all to read this article by Shanti Bhushan and react to it.regardsnaveen tewari
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Re: [IAC#RG] The ONE issue for the IAC movement.
Dear Pavan
Nail 3 '-1 vote " is based on statistics and mathematics of Indian elections. There is nothing against it in the Representation of People's Act and a simple Rule to allow it shall get it implemented. It will definitely alter / shakeup the present party systems and bring cleaner people into politics.
Nail 1's logic is very complicated for decent people like us to get at the first or second expositions. Faujis liek you who have fought against misguided armed citizens will resist it even more. However, for all its negatives its few positives (and they do exist) outweigh the considerations against it.
As IAC shall be going in for drafting its manifesto very soon, we are giving more time to receive a few more ACTION points from our members. After that it is upto the sub-groups (a mini referendum in its own way where all arguments are thrashed out privately) before the draft being put to the General Body via this and other mailing lists.
Sarbajit
Nail 3 '-1 vote " is based on statistics and mathematics of Indian elections. There is nothing against it in the Representation of People's Act and a simple Rule to allow it shall get it implemented. It will definitely alter / shakeup the present party systems and bring cleaner people into politics.
Nail 1's logic is very complicated for decent people like us to get at the first or second expositions. Faujis liek you who have fought against misguided armed citizens will resist it even more. However, for all its negatives its few positives (and they do exist) outweigh the considerations against it.
As IAC shall be going in for drafting its manifesto very soon, we are giving more time to receive a few more ACTION points from our members. After that it is upto the sub-groups (a mini referendum in its own way where all arguments are thrashed out privately) before the draft being put to the General Body via this and other mailing lists.
Sarbajit
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 9:13 AM, pavan nair <pavannair1@gmail.com> wrote:
Sarbajit,Whilst I am entirely in agreement with your Nail 2, I have reservations about Nail 1 and 3.The debate on the right to bear arms is ongoing even in the US in the light of several shootings in schools, gurudwaras etc. I do not think India is ready for such a law. If indeed such a law is considered AND we are a federation of states, then we also need to consider the right to secede. If I am not mistaken, there is such a clause in the US Constitution. That could end up in balkanisation as so many insurgencies are raging for several decades without resolution. Availability of arms would also add fuel to these movements. I do not think that the strategic establishment which wields a fair amount of influence over government will agree to any such move.We have debated the negative vote in detail. We could consider a mini referendum?Pavan Nair
On Mon, Apr 1, 2013 at 7:03 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Subscribers
A summary of IAC members viewpoints for further discussion.
Vidyut Kalesupplemented with1 nail = figuring out self-sustainability at the grassroots regardless of imposed circumstances. Supporting with attacking harmful policy. (15 words)
"India against Vampirism."(Enough blood suckers feeding on the vulnerable.)India Against Dishonesty- Be honest to yourself-Respect those who serve- Never respect a person who occupy a Chair which he do not deserve to occupy-Never respect a person merely on account of his wealth-Why some one desires to heap wealth by illegal / improper means ? Money will wipe out his unpleasant past..Let us start respecting persons for their knowledge,efficiency etc. This applies to all human beings.Let it be "World Against Dishonesty"
1) Attacking harmful policy
2) Determining tenacious self-sustainable grassroot models.P.Mohana Chandran:2 Nail : Simplify the running of the country to the point any citizen can understand and engage. All aspects."India against Obscurism"
Tadepalli Triambakakishore
One Nail : Select model for community building of Indians to be Against Corruption .Select from various models viz; Temple/ church/railways/armed forces
Devender ChopraPavan Nair
1 Nail= Governance by a single PM, apply laws to control corruption, rest will follow.dev chopra in gurgaonRaminder SinghIndia against inequity. Whether caste or gender or religion or wealth based. Elimination of hunger and poverty and female foeticide. Twenty words! Pavan NairRustom Dalal
"India Against INDIANS"
(Dogs and Indians not allowed)
Eliminate bigotry, hatred, ignorance, corruption, discrimination, houses of worship, leaders, followers, media, lawyers, political parties. Instill morality, Dharma, transparency, accountability.. (20 words) RaminderSarbajit Roy
1 Nail= Complete integrity in all activists to inspire a thousand others.Only practice will inspire followers.We cant change others. Only ourselves. R R DALAL
1 Nail = The right of the people to form Militias and keep and bear arms to ensure a secure, free and well regulated State, shall not be infringed.
2 Nail = Indian Polity to
a) Rise above religion
b) Abolish all reservations incl. for elections.
c) Promote merit and a level playing field
d) Give enhanced facilities, education or incentives to socially backward individuals to allow them to advance
3 Nail : The "-1" vote (or right to reject / blackball any candidate)
Past Discussions:
India's problems
1) Absence of Democracy (people's direct participation).
2) Lack of proper governance to favour corporates, cronies and scamsters.
3) Criminalisation of society, coupled with breakdown of law and order.
4) Tensions on our borders, with weakened Armed Forces
5) Dynastic family rule and all pervasive Gandhi-ism
6) Complete breakdown of societal values, education & health delivery systems
7) Rampant corruption in the judiciary
8) Inadequate and crumbling infrastructure
9) Systematic grabbing of land and other natural resources
10) Deeply corrupt media.
On the positive side
1) India has a great Parallel ("black") economy which holds the nation together and insulates us from the economic woes of the rest of the world..
2) India has some of the best laws on the world.
3) India has a common language (English) which is understood almost everywhere in the globe.
4) India has great people who have resisted efforts to divide them
5) India has a functioning bureaucracy of sorts.
6) India has a young population and lack of social security systems..
7) Indians have a "can do" entrepreneurial spirit recognised the world over.
8) India has Bharat to back it up.
9) India has a plurality of faiths, cultures and value systems.
10) India still has reasonably fair electoral processes.
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Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
Prohibited bore weapons can only be obtained after obtaining valid licence. His father as MP could have got it. There are Central Government rules under which such licence can be obtained.
Sanjay Dutt had collected his weapon from unauthorized source when planning for riots and bomb blast was being done by his friends /associates. Later an attempt was made to destroy the weapon. It is difficult to justify such acts. I suppose in India "chalta hai" for people with clout.
From: "devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com" <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>; shadikatyalsearch <shadikatyal@yahoo.com>; VinodKumar <kv08535@yahoo.com>; "jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com" <jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com>; SatbirSingh <ssbedi1945@yahoo.com>
Sent: Monday, 1 April 2013, 11:58
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
The need of a weapon and its seriousness depends on the threat perception. If the threat comes from someone like say Ajmal Kasab, you do need an AK 47 plus a few hand grenades provided you are trained to use them. or when a threat is from a wild crowd, a licensed gun or a pistol is no good as we have seen in the Ehsan Jaffri case . The crowd tore him into pieces.
I think the Mumbai riots were not an ordinary situation, it was a mixture of the two. where a licensed pistol or a shot gun would not have protected Dutt and his family. I think the SPG who protect the VVIPs as their daily duties do carry automatic weapons and not small firearms?. Devinder
From: vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>
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Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013, 14:45
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
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From: devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
To: "vasant sardesai" <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>, "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>, "shadikatyalsearch" <shadikatyal@yahoo.com>, "VinodKumar" <kv08535@yahoo.com>, "jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com" <jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com>, "SatbirSingh" <ssbedi1945@yahoo.com>
Date: Saturday, 30 March, 2013, 2:38 PM
The usual wepons of self defence for a citizen under threat shoud not be AK47 rifle. but a smaller weapon. DevinderFrom: vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>
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Sent: Saturday, 30 March 2013, 7:47
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
From: devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com <devinder.thakur@btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>, "shadikatyalsearch" <shadikatyal@yahoo.com>, "VinodKumar" <kv08535@yahoo.com>, "jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com" <jeevkulkarni@yahoo.com>, "SatbirSingh" <ssbedi1945@yahoo.com>
Date: Friday, 29 March, 2013, 8:41 PM
There does not have to be a physical attack for someone to retaliate in self defence. The threats (by Shive Sainaks???) and its fear would be taken as real and any measures to counter would be treated as taken in self defence. One does not see any doubt in this due to his parents social and political activities. Sanjay is convicted for having weapons illegally and also from a dubious source. If he had gone to the local police authority for a licence to have weapons and got them through a licence weapon supplier, there would have been no case to answer. DevinderFrom: vasant sardesai <vasant_sardesai@yahoo.co.in>
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Friday, 29 March 2013, 14:02
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists" Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in/
From: Kumar Arun <kumar2786@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
To: "IAC Sarabjit" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Date: Friday, 29 March, 2013, 5:47 PM
Millions of Indian born in and around 1970 have very little idea how did Sanjay behave in hisown family. His father did what a typical father had been taught by the ancestors. The fact ofthe matter is that even many parents are not applying common sense in parenting even today.Having said that the arguments presented by Mr. Tewari on behalf of Shanti Bhushan, a strongpillar of Aam Aadmi Party (AAP), are like opening another pandora box. If every one start doingwhat Mr. Shanti Bhushan have suggested, there will be no law & order at all. Was there any Hinducaught defending like Sanjay? And, if a Hindu alleged by law officers, every one knows the out come.Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2013 11:16:49 +0530 From: wide.aware@gmail.com To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !1. had the state failed to protect Sanjay Dutt?Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" Exit: "indiaresists-unsubscribe@lists.riseup.net" Quit: "https://lists.riseup.net/www/signoff/indiaresists" Help: https://help.riseup.net/en/list-user WWW : http://indiaagainstcorruption.net.in2. How come he has been safe all through in spite of being accused of terrorism and being out of jail most of the time?3. What about the hand grenades, witness testimonies that he asked a gangster to "do something" about the riots, providing support for the arms haul to be unpacked from concealed compartment and repacked into bags? He provided tools, safe location as well as bags.4. A full seven years after the fact, he was still intercepted courting a gangster and introducting "fans"5. What happened of the 2 AK-56s and hand grenades he had taken - in the sense of how did he get exonerated of that and his sole "mistake" seems to be one assault weapon for self-defense?That said, why were others who got weapons from that haul not prosecuted? Sharad Pawar says they chose not to. Why?The role of Shiv Sena, Sanjay Dutt and the gangsters is highly incestuous. They go around rioting, but Sarpotdar has WITH HIM a top hitman of the same gang as well as illegal weapons provided by a gangster network led by a Muslim. Said Gang later bombs innocents in "retaliation" for the riots in which their member too had armed and hobnobbed with perpetrators. Then, Sanjay Dutt gets into trouble motivated by the same riots and Shiv Sena saves his skin for fee, though obviously they had to be among the top intended recipients of any action said assault weapon got. Sanjay Dutt's relations with gangsters continue, including saving Vidhu Vinod Chopra from an extortion racket by telling Anees Ibrahim to lay off because he was among the few who supported him when he went to prison.Now, hearing the news of his sentencing, Shiv Sena went into default "save Sanjay Dutt" mode, but find their outrage and change loyalties on a dime at some point.The only thing I accept about Sanjay Dutt was that he was a fool and got into it for exactly the reasons he claimed. The others Shiv Sena in the riots as well as the Gand retaliating on "behalf of Muslims" were strategically in bed with each other while outwardly claiming outrage for "their" side of the line and killing unrelated innocents - largely to radicalize people and consolidate power.That said, Sanjay Dutt was stupid, but most definitely illegal in his actions.VidyutOn Fri, Mar 29, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:Dear Naveen
Shri Shanti Bhushan has laid down the LAW.
You can argue with Mr. Bhushan but you cannot argue with the LAW.
If the State fails to protect a person, he is in his rights to acquire ALL MEANS REQUIRED TO DEFEND HIS LIFE
Mr,. Bhushan ECHOES IAC when we stand for right to bear arms freely and defend ourselves.
Mr. Bhushan's legal basis is IDENTICAL with IAC's because IPC is a 150 year old law almost as old as IAC (or Mr. Bhushan)
Sarbajit
Post: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net"Dear All,Shanti Bhushan has certainly gone beyond senility and is showing signs of Dementia. His long article in the Hindu of 26th march is the latest example of that. Here he is with all his remnant legal acumen misplaced to the hilt, arguing for a summary reprieve for Sanjay Dutt. In this venture mr. Bhushan quoted the judgment of the supreme court wherein the court has mentioned that Sanjay Dutt's reason for possessing those prohibited guns and arsenal was self defence. Mr. Bhushan argues that it is not a crime to defend oneself even if the ammunition possessed by one is without licence.What a wonderful logic by this legal luminary who was once our Law Minister. I can only feel ashamed as an Indian that people of such calibre find there way to top positions in the country where they can play with the destiny of the people of this country. I am also deeply distressed that such people still manage to find a place in the public discourse no matter what level of atrophy their brain has reached.The Hindu, my most favourite newspaper, is also springing surprises like these every now and then.I request you all to read this article by Shanti Bhushan and react to it.regardsnaveen tewari
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[IAC#RG] Fw: Need for Electoral Reforms -- Fundamental Deficiency
Dear T K Arun ,
The attachment is a self explanatory document written by Mr P P Rao , Eminent Senior Advocate Supreme Court and one of the REVERED EXPERTS on the Constitution Law . This document is well worth reading and sharing with your friends / associates , the family and also the GROUPS OF YOUTH , wherever you may access them in your circle , so as to Enlighten and Awaken them for their Honest Focus on what our specific Hopes and Demands should be about the " FUNDAMENTAL REFORMS " in our NATIONAL AND THEIR OWN PUBLIC INTEREST . I wish the present Activists and the Speakers comming regularly on the Prime Time Television Programs every day , instead of just Preaching / Denigrading the Political Leaders and / or the Parties and highlighting ONLY the prevailing problems without proposing any Viable and / or Available Solutions / Options , should concentrate more to Educate and Energise the Youth about the Various Issues of Priority Concern such as the Uninspiring , Untrustworthy and Self-Seeking Political Leadership , Divisive Politics , Incapacity of Governance which is NEITHER being able to Formulate Policies NOR is it being able to Handle the Huge , Costly and Ineffective Administrative Machinery in it's Delivery of Services to the Public , thereby , Remaining Unable to Fulfill it's Responsibilities to Serve Our National Security and Public Interests .
. In order to Inclusively Develop Economically , India needs Mental Resources , Material resources and the WILL to Progress. While we have the First Two , but NOT the Third in Reality . We have the Wish to Progress ; but we have yet to Develop the WILL at the Helm of Leadership to progress through Determined Actions .However , there seems to be some Glimpse of Evolutionary Stocktaking , currently going on amongst the pubic , which will hopefully lead us to the desired CHANGE in ATTITUDES . To note , a Bad Government is the Inevitable Consequence of an Indifferent Electorate and it's Vague Level of Awareness .
It is also a Vicious Circle wherein , the Men / Women of Talent and Integrity will NOT Enter Public Life because of the Existing Filth and the Stench; and yet Public Life cannot be Cleansed unless Men and Women of Talent and Integrity enter it and Assume their Social Responibilities .
Nevertheless , I have great hopes in our Young Men and Women of Talent once they are Awakened to Combine their Energies . The National Conscience will Continuously be Aroused till it Reaches such a Degree that it will Cease to Tolerate any further Falsehood and Dishonesty in Public Life . Standards of Ethics and Decency in Public Life are less Easy to Enforce by Law than by Public Opinion . What our country today badly needs , and sadly lacks, is not Political Leadership but Moral Leadership, which can Inspire and Lead to a Renaissance of the True Indian Culture .
The Bleak Socio-political Environment, as it exists today however , need Not make us Unduly Despondent . India has the Traditional Gift of Producing Great Souls / Leaders in the Darkest Hour . With Deep Seated Faith , I have to confess that when the HOUR STRIKES , the Situation will CHANGE like Volcanic Action and the appropriate Leadership will be found on the Horizon to get us out of the present QUAGMIRE . Hopefully , by then we will also see surfacing of the Collective Wisdom / Experience of the Elders duly integrated with the Energy of the Youth .
AS WE LIVE IN THE UNCERTAIN AND YET VERY INTERESTING TIMES TODAY , THE DESIRED CHANGES ARE SEEMINGLY IN THE PIPE LINE TO BE SEEN IN THE NEAR FUTURE AHEAD . LET US WAIT IN HOPE FOR THE GREAT FUTURE TO ARRIVE SOON BUT WITHOUT ANY FORTHRIGHT CONSIDERATION / ACTION , IT MAY BE DELAYED BEYOND REDEMPTION !
kIind Regards
R.Adm (retd.) H.C.Malhotra
Mb; 9953525252
.
Mb; 9953525252
.
Re: [IAC#RG] Shanti Bhushan in Sanjay Dutt's Defence !
Dear Sarabjit,
Greetings.
Good going. Keep up the good work.
-Joshi NM
On 31 March 2013 22:54, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Naishadh
Greetings to you
(d) can even be all the existing privileged classes like SC, ST, OBC, Muslims, Anglos etc. its not a big deal. It only means that money will be spent on them (through their leaders) so that they do not oppose withdrawal of reservations. Of course entire political class / parties will calculate the numbers and not a single one will publicly oppose withdrawal of reservations. So it needs a different strategy as the Kumar & Kumar Co. has shown us.
IAC does not hold any brief for Sanjay Dutt or his shenanigans. IAC only has a certain (very advanced) point of view on "arms for all" which is not intellectually palatable to honest / decent citizens at the present time.
Sufficeth to say that the leading intellectuals of HRA are united that India needs a 2nd Amendment, and that all citizens, especially minorities, need protection against the State if the State is to be scared of its citizens.
"Citizens should not be scared of their State, the State must be scared of its citizens".
SarbajitOn Sat, Mar 30, 2013 at 7:02 PM, Joshi NM <naishadhjoshi@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Sarabjit,Greetings.As on my part, I fully concur on your points stated at (a)(b)(c). However, point (d) needs to be refined in terms of what is "backward Groups"? -economically, socially, educationally etc.?On the Issue of Sanjay Dutt, I feel finality of SC judgment need to be disturbed just on the ground of a celebrity claiming fable pretext of self defence. Shanti Bhushan may gain fees or fame as a lawyer. Mr. Katju may embroil in political imbroglio. But IAC ought to take an intellectual stand on SC Judgment needing no review merely on the ground of Dutt claiming self defense or Zebunnisa claiming humanitarian sympathetic ground.Regards,-Joshi NM
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Best Regards,
-Joshi NM
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