Tuesday, August 4, 2015

Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

My own view is that the entire system from hiring to training to performance evaluation to reward-punishment needs complete overhaul from the present stone-age practices.
However, overhauling only the IAS in isolation will not work. Other wings of governance such as police, judiciary, administration, electorate system, etc. also need to be corrected.
BUT, I also think it is far too late, and we are sunk.


From: pirthipal singh dhillon <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2015 12:57 AM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

Very educative comments.I take this opportunity to present few thoughts having spent all working time in MNCs of world repute.Experience gained during interaction with IAS/IPS/IRS etc had been very positive & very negative.I also got insight of working style of these professionals as my younger brother also belonged to IAS cadre.I feel basic intelligence level is available but clarity on Job description is missing.This question I asked Kejriwal during India Against Corruption days movement that : did he get job description letter when he joined & whether Kiran bedi got it:.He could not give me clear answer.So this issue requires more in depth understanding before we pass any judgement. Governance issue is very critical now in fast changing environment.
Regards
Dhillon



From: Ravindran P M <raviforjustice@gmail.com>
To: Dr. NC Jain <j_nc2000@yahoo.com>
Cc: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Thursday, July 30, 2015 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

Sorry Dr Jain, you seen to have got carried away by the opulance of the district collector's office! The best of them are simply good clerks and nothing more. But most of them are idiots/traitors. You are welcome to go through my blog 'IAS- INDIAN ASSHOLES-ON-STRIKE SERVICE' at

They are just custodians of documents with a skill set-making briefs and answering comprehension questions- acquired by anybody who has been to school beyond 5th standard! Of course for the UPSC exam they ask a lot of irrelevant questions- more in the nature of buying lottery tickets than serving any meaningful purpose!

A case study of these clerks have subverted the RTI Act will by itself prove what a treacherous lot we have for assisting the politically elected decision makers in the governance of the country! Again you may go through my series of blogs - -RTIA-EXPOSING THE IDIOTS AND TRAITORS AMOUNG PUBLIC SERVANTS- at  http://raviforjustice.blogspot.in

regards n bw

ravi



On Mon, Jul 27, 2015 at 12:57 PM, "Dr. NC Jain" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
Dear sir
   In my opinion, IAS should not be scrapped . Its training should be modified according to circumstances and new environment.IAS is the cream of Indians and they should be encouraged to use their maximum potential. Today, India is free and we have to make Indians free. IAS officers can play an important role to make Indians free.
Dr N C Jain
27-7-15 



On Monday, July 27, 2015 7:40 AM, umesh rohatgi <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:


if they wish to serve is there than make sure you reward people who come to you instead of them punishment and at least talk to them as equal offer chair to them and then talk to them and don't attend any one call while you are taking to them and see how y can help them and rules are there to help people not punish. change the attitude first
 umesh rashmi rohatgi



On Tuesday, July 21, 2015 1:22 AM, Ravindran P M <raviforjustice@gmail.com> wrote:


I am glad to see a post by a civil service aspirant here! I have to admit one fact-there is not one civil service aspirant who had not stated that the reason they wanted to join the civil services is to serve the society. The range of sincerity in  those words may vary from 0 pc to 100 pc. But it is equally true that sooner than later, once in service, they transform from service providers to perks and privilege seekers! 

One observation that needs to be commented upon is the one regarding institutional overhauling vs societal overhauling. Let us admit there will always be a few undesirable elements in all societies and it is to check these undesirable elements that we have the elaborate system of governance. So the one point agenda of every society, as a society, should be to make this govt work. And that is why we need to go for institutional overhaul and not societal overhaul! The former should be pragmatic and the latter a mere wild goose chase.

Now, those interested may read my two blogs:


and

'RTI Act-Shailesh Gandhi and Schopenhauer's Law of Entropy' at

regards

ravi

On Sat, Jul 18, 2015 at 12:49 AM, Dipanshi Rathore <rathore.dipanshi@gmail.com> wrote:
It will sound very simple. but needs a very broad understanding to be able to assimilate!
a)India needs a specific kind of an educational reform to undo the conditioning that has crept deep into the minds
b) moral standards need to be reinvoked
c) spirituality is the key to bring high moral ground among the people and only it can take the country on the path of being a super power in the coming future
No institutional/ machinery overhauling is required! It is the societal overhauling that is needed.

Regards
Dipanshi
(A Civil Service Aspirant)
On 18-Jul-2015 12:25 am, "Vidyut" <wide.aware@gmail.com> wrote:
There are problems with the IAS, there are problems with politicians. Alas, controlling each other is rarely about public interest. Perhaps I am cynical, but I don't think there are any magic fixes. Boring as it seems without a quick pill, I think it is going to take alert citizens relentlessly demanding accountability, scrutinizing and curbing every wrong that comes to light.

I think people consider the government or bureaucracy more like a service that ought to be perfect or you will call up customer service. Alas, in a democracy, the final boss is the citizen and it may be like herding cats, but in the end of the day, they will have to keep an eye on their employees and reward, punish or remove as necessary.

The most important thing is to mobilize people. Not go one morcha or andolan or against one bad guy, but in the spirit of vigilant and involved management of their own country.

Perfection is a convenient mirage that allows people to shruf off their own role on the stage. The only hope is continuous improvement.

Vidyut

Vidyut

Social Media: Twitter Facebook Google+ Diaspora


On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 10:19 AM, Jagjit Ahuja <jagjit.ahuja@gmail.com> wrote:
You may like to go through the appended write up written by an IAS officer  . Though it is long but worth reading  . 
I have read every word  but found that he has not analyzed  as to who has been responsible for  bringing such a state of affair of our country. 

It is my feeling that the so called Steel Frame of the country, the bureaucratic set up is responsible . This gets confirmed when  we analyze  working of our governing system after independence. It has  been the bureaucrats who kept on grabbing all the powers by be-fooling both the politicians and the public by twisting the rules to meet the requirements of the people whom they wanted to help.

Such a situation would have never creeped in our governing system had  they  been fair to all with  the authority and the powers they were enjoying .All these years the Joint Secretary of a Ministry  is considered as the Government. 


Please advise if I am wrong in my analyses.

Brig J S Ahuja

On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 11:17 AM, Harbhajan Singh <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
My Dear Gaur,

How are you?

I wonder if this topic is discussed in the NDC!!!!!*:) happy

We require Administrative and political reforms. But dear Gaur all the Governments are being managed by the IAS!!! Does any one think IAS would let any such reforms take place and above all be implemented!! Just look at OROP case!!!

We need a military/Presidential take over for two years in which the agenda should be administrative and political reforms and then hand over the reigns back to the new dispensation. I agree it is an Utopian idea but if we need to achieve some thing such ideas have to come up.

My considered view is that India is going to go down the drain and China-Pak combine will subjugate us in a decade or two may be. Things on the ground for common people including our types are very bad indeed and deteriorating fast.

Harbhajan Singh
Lt Gen

From: Gaur J K <gaurjk@hotmail.com>
To: "indiaresists@lists.riseup.net" <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Tuesday, 14 July 2015 3:26 PM
Subject: RE: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

13/7/15

Yes, but will it not be a piece-meal change?
Our whole system of governance is based on the colonial british model.
Our judicial system is based on the same.
Our laws are based on the same. Some laws are as old as 1860 just after it was taken over by the Imperial power.
Our Constitution is primarily drawing upon the British Model. 
Yet the realisation that changes are needed in the institutions of Governance should lead to the desired changes sooner or later.
Hiring of experts/advisors outside the IAS system could be one way to dilute their dominance. Mr. Modi seems to have realised and doing so in some areas.
JKGaur
From: dhiranil@hotmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 23:15:59 +0530
Subject: [IAC#RG] It's time to shut the IAS down

Forwarding as received, for it makes a lot of sense, sharing this article specially with those among us, who love welfare of our Society, our Armed Forces, and above all, our country as a whole.  It is an open fact that they are also the creator of the problem that is existing and around the widely known subject matter as OROP issue !
Anil Dhir

Date: Sun, 12 Jul 2015 19:34:09 +0530
Subject: Fwd: It's time to shut the IAS down
From: 
To:


It's time to shut the IAS down

                    ( A forward as received)

 
Last updated on: June 08, 2015 13:17 IST
The IAS distrusts outsiders bringing change, the product of being a tenured cadre; it worships authority rather than citizenship, the legacy of being lackeys of the Queen-Emperor -- and it admires itself above all, for no reason that the rest of us can discern. Mihir S Sharma explains.
If Prime Minister Narendra Modi fails to live up to the expectations that he has raised, it will not be entirely his fault.
After all, he has moderated his promises.
The shining vision of India's future he outlined in early 2014 has been replaced by the -- still inspiring -- set of aspirations listed in the 2015 Budget.
A house for everyone by 2022, with 24-hour power, clean drinking water, a road and modern sanitation; one job per family, medical and skilling facilities close by, and much else of that nature.
You cannot fault his targets, and you cannot fault his energy.
If he seems to have little idea of how to get there, well, he was never asked for such details about implementation on the campaign trail, so it's a little late to complain now.
The problem is that he is trying to drive the country to these oh-so-distant targets by 2022, but he still has the same old car with which to do it.
Today, in the middle of 2015, it is doubly, triply, quadruply clear that changing the driver was not enough -- the driver was never the biggest, the realest problem. The real problem is the car.
Modi might have the will, the energy, the sincerity and the ambition. But unless he fundamentally changes the system that implements his will, that realises his ambition, he is doomed to fail.
And that system is the Indian government and its bureaucracy. I want you to pause for a moment to think, as objectively as you can, about how farcical it is.
We, the world's fastest-growing economy and its largest democracy, have a state structure basically unchanged from the extractive system set up to rule a vast, pastoral country on behalf of a distant island nation.
We have a twice-born bureaucracy that holds so much power.
Why? Because they are the happy inheritors of a system in which civil servants would have been loyal to Queen and Whitehall, but ministers may have been dangerously nationalist -- and thus needed to be easily vetoed or blocked.
We still have a tenured, generalist civil service, organised on Victorian public-school principles, even as our economy and governance become fiendishly more complex.
Every single foreign investor, foreign do-gooder, foreign diplomat, is astounded by both the intelligence of their Indian bureaucratic interlocutor and their -- much of the time -- complete and utter ignorance of the issues at hand.
What else can you expect?
The person having to deal with FIIs today may have been dealing with water harvesting yesterday.
No matter how high your rank in a deadly dull competitive examination in the early 1980s, you will not handle that transition seamlessly.
It is natural, therefore, that you take no risks and show no imagination; you are, after all, always a step behind those you are regulating or governing.
It is less natural that you are incredibly arrogant even while being that step behind. (Or to suppose that anyone else in government being paid more than you would be a colossal, extraordinary insult to the Indian Republic, equivalent to Bangladesh annexing most of Eastern India. Imagine if a tax expert or a lawyer was hired from the private sector and paid more than the Cabinet Secretary! The whole edifice of government would collapse! Anarchy would rule! Four southern states would sink into the sea! Etc, etc)
We have an un-fire-able, unaccountable civil service, which can screw up as much as it likes -- consider, for example, the monumental error that was the FII-MAT (minimum alternate tax) imbroglio -- and still will face no consequences.
This is the largest cause of the institutionalised mediocrity that holds this country back. Even promotions are largely dependent on seniority and not record; nobody would run any other organisation thus, but it's OK to run a complicated, under-governed country like this?
Ah, we are told, but insulating administrators is necessary to ensure they are not subject to politicisation -- to ensure they are "independent".
This laughable claim can only be the product of wilfully refusing to actually read even one newspaper headline over the past 20 years.
Who can claim that bureaucrats are not politicised, given contemporary history? How many have simply refused to sign what they are supposed to? There are some such glorious names, but vanishingly few.
Combine these three factors, and you have a government machinery that is unaccountable, under-informed, and all-powerful. It lacks creativity. It automatically stifles innovation (witness the colossal idiocy underlying its shutdown of Uber in the capital).
There is no alternative but to shut these people down. Root-and-branch reform, beginning with an end to the imperial-era privileges of the Indian Administrative Service.
The IAS distrusts outsiders bringing change, the product of being a tenured cadre; it worships authority rather than citizenship, the legacy of being lackeys of the Queen-Emperor -- and it admires itself above all, for no reason that the rest of us can discern.
The prime minister, sadly, agrees with that.
He, too, seems to imagine that his transformative promises can be operationalised and implemented by the same people who have failed us for 70 years.
His first action on entering 7, Race Course Road, was to tell the secretaries to the Union that they could speak to him directly, cutting out their ministers.
Subsequently he took over all appointments. This is in a way natural; when Modi was appointed chief minister of Gujarat, he had no experience of -- or history of interest in -- policy.
Guess who he turned to? Perhaps that's why the bureaucrats other Indians see as obstructive, backward-looking monuments to institutional arrogance are seen by our prime minister as gentle tutors in the art of governance.
This is a pity, since the only way he will actually transform India is by first transforming its hopelessly out-of-date government.
Actually, if Prime Minister Narendra Modi fails to live up to the expectations that he has raised, it will be entirely his fault. He should have started by ending the IAS.









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