Well we all know in India all decisions are taken by our politicians who r proved most corrupt, they only see personal n vested interest so nothing can be done n it will continue. Our deffence persons r no less corrupt given a chance only their digestive power is low since they r in uniform n can't hoodwink the system much. Check on the any of the Arms deals from the time of independence till date. We bought all second hand weapons, ships, acs n tanks etc. with the rates of new ones. Where the money has gone, to some individuals pockets. Who took the stand, are not we all citizens of India? So we all are to be blamed, The trials n recommendations start at the level of a major/sqd leader/Lt cdr at unit level. How many of us has done our jobs honestly?
On Thursday, 10 October 2013 7:55 AM, Gautam Guha <shona.guha9@gmail.com> wrote:
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I take umbrage to Govinda Menon's mail, where he has done character assasination
of ACM Browne, he should be sued for defamation of character, we as veteran air
warriors would like to give him a military blanket parade should we ever get hold
of him physically. Since when Ajai Shukla become an expert in AIR POWER.?. .
IS THERE NO DECENCY IN THIS NATION?All mails coming to me from this
website I will delete in future.I do not want to be included in this page.FU
Wg Cdr Gautam Guha
VETERAN AIR WARRIOR
On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 11:07 AM, Ranjit Rai <ranjitrai123@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Menon CC Friends in White,A VIEW FROM ABROAD ON INDIAN DEFENCE ISSUESLooks like India will be KANGAL again for defence as it was in 1991 when Op Pawan and bills for Defence and oil purchases contributed and PM Rajiv Gandhi got caught in BOFORS after Sanjay in HDW. Nothing came of both.Innocent fine simple AVRO 748 pilot Rajiv lied in Parliament that Op Pawan cost no more than two divisions operating in India. It cost $ 3 bill.Same picture appears today from abroad with a cut in operating planes and ships, ban on foreign tours and 10% spending cut and all purchases slowed even essential ones like 126 Rafles Squadrons for IAF, Helicopters for Navy and guns for the Army.......Cost of 45 MiG-29Ks operating with Vikramaditya and cost of 4 nuclear submarines and three carriers is still to hit RM Antony if he does a forecast. Foreigners do the study and foreign naval Chiefs are asking me quite sensibly..CC OTHERS DELETE IF BUSY ..THIS IS .VERY USEFUL GOVIND AS TODAY IS MY LAST DAY of FOUR WONDERFUL LEARNING DAYS IN HOSPITABLE VERY MODERN QATAR ( Qataris want the best) in MARITIME SECURITY CONFERENCE WHERE INDIAN ISSUES OF SELECTION OF FIGHTERS AND SHIPS ETC ETC ARE BEING DISCUSSED IN CONFERENCE WITH OPEN TALK OF INDIA with world's most experienced folks. Some 200 many from EU USA and none from Russia.See the list below. Every big company is here and ELCOME INTERNATIONAL from DUBAI, owned by an Ex Navy sailor Grewal and run by his brother in India and very smart Dubai US educated son who worked for Microsoft and 300 employees is one of the sponsors as the lead supplier of systems in GCC. Should make us proud of an EAR/PO(ELR) from the Navy. It has helped my status here and Elcome happy to see me present their excellent work in India.Admiral Henry G. (Harry) Ulrich III, USN (Ret.), Former Commander, US Naval Forces Europe, US Navy§ Tom Whittingham, Former Wing Commander, Maritime Security, Oman, Royal Air Force§ Martin Davies, Admiralty Law Institute Professor of Maritime Law & Director, Tulane Maritime Law Center Tulane Law School§ Former Danish Chief of Defence, Admiral Tim Sloth Jørgensen, Chief Strategy Officer, Terma Defense & Security§ Professor of Law, Charles H. Norchi, Director, LL.M. Program / Director, Center for Oceans & Coastal Law, University of Maine School of Law§ Cmde (R) Ranjit Rai, Vice President & Former Director Naval Operations, Indian Maritime Foundation & Indian Navy§ Vice Admiral (Ret.) Lutz Feldt, Former Chief of Staff German Navy and President German Maritime Institute§ Hartmut Hesse, Former Special Representative Of The Secretary-General For Maritime Security And Anti-Piracy Programs Maritime Safety Division, International Maritime Organisation (IMO)§ Phillip Cornell, Special Advisor to the Executive Director, International Energy Agency§ COL Fred Stein, Distinguished Principal Engineer, MITRE§ Dr. Robert D. Childs, Chancellor, National Defense University iCollege, and Deputy to the President for Cyber and Information§ VADM John W. Miller, USN Commander, U.S. Naval Forces Central Command/ Commander, U.S. FIFTH Fleet/ Combined Maritime ForcesHere are a few important updates on what we are working on internally that will help you plan your trip in partnership with our larger QMARSEC Team:1.) QATAR GOVERNMENT: We have successfully received the commitment on behalf of the Qatari government to have the inaugural QMARSEC 2013 Opening Ceremony attended by:a. MOI : HE Sheikh Abdullah Bin Nasser Bin Khalifa Al-Thani - The Prime Minister and Minister of the Interiorb. MOD : HE Maj. Gen. Hamad bin Ali Al-Attiyah, Minister of State for Defence AffairsI truly enjoyed your enlightening and other posts on IAF Squadrons, GRIPEN ,TEJAS, SU-30s etc and will keep clear of corruption as India is full of it and while politicians get the Booty .. poor service people do get crumbs in few lacs of favors, track 2s, trips or circuitous crores and become scape goats. So lets leave it at that ....India in the last 8 years with wealth on top and with placing of huge orders with no leadership by Pm himself has corruption going down to the last wire from the Policeman to the IT man and MCDs. Its no secret to foreigners who operate in India. We indulge in it to survive.On Gripen ...........Many agree and I had written as a controller that Gripen was the economical choice as 240 SU-MKIs long range had been inducted and TEJAS could be weaponised by SAAB/BAe but what beats all is how the IAF called it MMRCA which a Gripen single engined is, but included all sorts of LRCA HEAVY twin engines in the competition ...WHO WROTE THE QRs for the competition and were IAF not convinced they needed a twin engined JUMBO. Now Navigators and others are co-pilots .Please enlighten any one ???Now with IAF fuel costs of C-17s and if 126 RAFALES and A-330 tankers are ordered and India's nuclear submarines, 45 MiG-29Ks and Aircraft carriers will see India in the next five years in economic trouble .........Defence orders will suffer as HAL and MDL are over stretched and Alcock Ashdown is broke to deliver even Survey boats.I write all this as QATAR Air Force negotiator who did the 12 MIRAGE 2000 deal to sell to Indiaand all was agreed three years ago .......But tells me what happened and QATAR said go to hell. ANY ONE TELL ME WHO DID THE IAF NEGOTIATIONS AND WHAT HAPPENED? What is the Indian picture ?
In AW -101 I learn no body in India is asking why some one got the $ 200 mill in Italy from India in the AW-101 contract as Italy's Geraldo Genarro Chief of Intelligence now Chairman CEO of FINMECCANICA is proving that unless India gives Italy all the MOD PMO papers which are like COALGATE the case cannot prosecute any one in Italy. Js(air) knew all this. I learnt Italy have all the telephone conversations from Swiss based agents of Westland. CAN ANY ONE HELP ANSWER BELOW TODAY. Nothing will come of this case.1. Why was tested and cheaper Sirkosy S-92 rejected...QATAR flies S-92 as VIP.2. Was Disc loading checked ...which Indian VIP birds need and MI-8 and S-92 have .3. There was no AW-101 in the world so the Merlin was tested and in UK.....?????? who agreed and why ?.4. How did NSA and Chief of NSG take the final decisions ?.5. What is the Dubai connection ?.CAN ANY ONE THROW L GHT ???? SOON on above questions.QATAR is finally deciding which OPVs and MMRCA fighters and Maritime systems to buy and is looking at India's choice in detail so all companies are here wooing them like they did in India and pumping me and others with stories of Indian choice how the RAFALE was chosen and wonder when it will be signedQATAR is the richest country in the world with 2 mill people with $ 24 Bill GDP and per capita of $ 105,000 and last year Qatar doubled the salary of Government employees and water, electricity and water is free and there is no Income tax. I tell them India has 1.3 bill people per capita is $ 1200 but GDP is $ 1.3 trill with poverty galore.I am selling TEJAS here as I tried and almost succeeded in Singapore who wanted to partner India and make 30 % in Singapore in the 90s and DRDO refused ....Qatar would like that as it has MONEY......I am on to it. Any ideas .....to set up mini HAL here.RROn 8 October 2013 10:41, govindan menon <tcgmenon@hotmail.com> wrote:
Fighter planes.Mig -21 plane is being operated by a single pilot. Majority of fighter planes in the world are operated by only one pilot, except Rafael and Euro fighter Typhoon. Russians are operating Sukhoi planes with single pilot. But IAF had asked the Russians to modify the plane and make it suitable for two pilots. The exact reason for this request is not known. Perhaps the idea is to by -pass Swedish- make Gripen . The person who asked for two seater Plane has no consideration for human life. Americans have started using Drones to minimize loss of human life. It is easy to get fighter planes, but training a pilot is time consuming. This will create shortage of pilots in the long run. So over a period of time there will be enough planes but there will be shortage of pilots.Swedish Gripen fighter planes are the best replacement for Mig-21.Its specification matches with Mig-21. Its operating cost is the lowest in the world ( $ 3000 per hour), where as Rafael' s operating cost is $.17000. Another advantage is that Gripen was using the same GE engine which we are using in Tejas. Swedish company Volvo has developed a suitable engine for Gripen as a replacement for GE engine. The financial condition of Gripen is not sound. So Govt. of India should have tried to acquire the company(Gripen) like Tatas acquired Corus instead of spending on Rafael planes. This could have solved two problems - one is a suitable replacement for Mig-21 and the other is a suitable engine for Tejas. We cannot depend on USA. They can impose sanction at any time.e equivalent to SU 30 MKi fighter plane . It is better than Thyfoon and Rafeal . More over Tejas Mark I is e better than . Read this report.It is time to induct the Tejas into the IAF in large numbers, not just to phase out the MiG-21, but also to let line pilots develop confidence in the fighter and allow their feedback to inform further development.Firstly, as testified by the IAF test pilots who have flown the Tejas through more than a thousand hours of flight-testing, the current version of the fighter, i.e. the Tejas Mark I, is already a world-class fighter that has achieved most performance landmarks that the IAF had demanded. It flies at Mach 1.6 (about 2,000 kmph), a speed that the IAF is satisfied with. Its state-of-the-art quadruplex digital flight control system makes it a maneuverable and easy-to-fly fighter, unlike the unforgiving MiG-21 that it is slated to replace. The Tejas has not had a single accident so far, testifying to the stability of its design.Another key measure of a fighter's capability is the Angle of Attack (AoA) it can achieve. The higher the AoA, the more lift that is generated, allowing a fighter to get airborne at slower speeds from short airstrips, e.g. aircraft carriers. The IAF had demanded an AoA of 26 degrees for the Tejas. The Tejas has already been tested to 24 degrees, and is on course to achieve that target.Says Air Commodore (Retd) Parvez Khokhar, who was for years the chief test pilot of the Tejas programme: "The Tejas Mark I is far superior to the MiG-21 fleet that the IAF would have to operate to the end of this decade. In key respects, it is a better fighter than even the Mirage 2000. The Tejas Mark I should enter the IAF's combat fleet in larger numbers and the Tejas Mark II scaled down. This would allow the air force to retire the MiG-21 fleet sooner."For this, the MoD must review its current plan to build just forty Tejas Mark I fighters, and embark upon another risky adventure to develop a more powerful, capable fighter. Since this would take at least four years of development work, the IAF would not start receiving the Tejas Mark II until 2018.Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 11:31:34 +0800
From:
Subject: [IAC#RG] KANGAL KIYA DESH KO, NIRBAL BANAYS FAUJ KO; BADNAM KIYA DESH KOKANGAL KIYA DESH KO, NIRBAL BANAYS FAUJ KO; BADNAM KIYA DESH KOIAF chief nervous over biggest defence deal
Three months before he hangs up his flying boots, Indian Air Force chief Air Chief Marshal N.A.K. Browne has expressed nervousness and uncertainty for the first time over the country's largest-ever military contract currently under negotiation: the $20-billion medium multirole combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal for 126 French-built Rafale fighters.Browne, who has expressed consistent optimism that a deal would be signed by the end of 2013, has struck his first note of anxiousness, no longer willing to put a time-frame to the deal, providing perhaps the clearest indication that it could be delayed.
"We have no back-up plan. If the MMRCA deal isn't signed, there will be a rapid decline in fighter numbers between 2017 and 22. It is imperative that the deal is signed quickly," Browne said at his annual press conference on Friday.
The IAF celebrates its 81st Air Force Day on October 8.
"Negotiations on the MMRCA are still on. Cannot place a timeline on when the deal will be signed. If the deal is delayed till next year, the first aircraft will arrive only in 2017," the chief said.
Over the past 18 months, the Chief has consistently sounded hopeful, assured that the deal would be signed variously by early 2013, mid-2013 and end 2013. For the first time, he doesn't sound so sure anymore.
The sudden death on Wednesday of Arun Kumar Bal, the Ministry of Defence's pointsperson on acquisitions and specifically the MMRCA deal, is tragic, and a major setback to the deal, since he was fully in control of the acquisition, said Browne.
Bal had suffered a massive heart attack earlier this week near his Delhi residence.
The Defence Ministry has been in contract negotiations with the Rafale's maker Dassault Aviation for over 18 months now, in a matrix of highly complex discussions over offsets, transfer of technology, maintenance and several other heads in what is easily the country's most strenuous acquisition effort.
In January 2012, the Dassault Rafale was won the high-voltage competition, defeating the European Typhoon and four other jets, including the US-built F-16, F/A-18, Sweden's Gripen and the Russian MiG-35.The Indian Air Force currently operates 34 combat aircraft squadrons, comprised of Su-30 MKIs, MiG-21s, MiG-29s, Mirage 2000s, MiG-27s and Jaguars.
Against a sanctioned strength of 42 squadrons, this already represents a serious shortfall.
Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/iaf-chief-nervous-over-biggest-defence-deal/1/313111.html
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