Hi,
Though the mail is bit off the topic, but I think it is essential for us to speak into.
With regards to your statement "Today we have women, Muslims,OBCs, SCs and STs holding very high offices and that is the greatness of the Framers of our Constitution; if you have it in you, you can reach the top."
I seriously think whether they are getting the job with respect to the talent they have or whether they get the same with a caste certificate?
Also we people can have a "menial jobs" when we have to fight for our own struggle with our own talents not on the basis of caste.How many of you guys think that reservation for ST, SC and OBCs should be stopped as it really affects the "right to equality" for all indian citizen? And some "reserved candidate" with less talent will continue to serve government only on the basis of "certificate"? Which office can tell us when the reservations for the ST/SC/OBC may end? Which Office can tell us status of the "creamy layer" of the OBC and their use/abuse of "OBC" certificate?
Regarding the curbing of the population, we have in place a constitution which allows a person to marry 05 women at same time, which allows the system of caste to be acknowledged by alloting reservations, what can be done? One religion due to reservations or appeasement has right to disrespect our national anthem, has right to say no to abortion or family planning, has right to cry for victimization theory when acted upon for the criminal activities.
HOW YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE A BETTER SOCIETY WHEN WE HAVE ALL THE PEOPLE ON SINGLE PLATFORM, I.E. TALENT?
I apologize for any hard views expressed but the root of the corruption, is the reservation. Only when there is going to be heavy competition, only and only then better talented people may serve india, with better ethics and moral as competition will demands such quality from them.
Regards,
Hemant
On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 1:05 PM, mmp kala <mmp_kala@yahoo.com> wrote:
Dear Friends,
I will uphold any religion if I feel that it is being maligned unfairly and that is what I thought one of our friends was doing to Hinduism in one of the preceding mail. I have read Vedas, some 54 plus Upanishads and other books of Hindus, some Buddhist literature and it all began with my introduction to Christianity in the Sunday Bible School by missionaries in 1953-54 and my acquiring the Bible as far back as 1978. Today we have women, Muslims,OBCs, SCs and STs holding very high offices and that is the greatness of the Framers of our Constitution; if you have it in you, you can reach the top.
As for the menial jobs, no body does it out of coercion. The rising unemployment forces people to do what comes their way.. Remember that India adds every year some 1.2 crore children which is marginally less than the total population of Australia which has double the area of India; and China though has the maximum population, it has 3.5 times the area of India. China has sensed the danger and is curtailing its population but we know the danger but have closed our eyes. Will we be able to provide 12 million additional jobs to those born this year after 20 years, and will we keep increasing the jobs at 1.2 crore plus every year? We were 36 crores in 1951, 101 crores in 2001 and 122 crores in 2011 some three times increase in 60 years; the last decade 2001-2012) saw a population increase of 20 percent. With 20 percent increase per decade at compounded rate, where will we be by the end of this century and how will our progeny survive? They will do every possible job, menial or otherwise, and if the jobs are not there, they will come down to lawlessness as part of the struggle for existence; it will be no wonder if they come down to cannibalism. Please shed no tears for the menial jobs; they will be there for all times to come and they will remain in demand; however, the society should ensure that these workers are given a fair deal.
Col Kala..
--- On Thu, 19/7/12, Kamal Kumar Mitra <kamalkmitra@yahoo.com> wrote:
From: Kamal Kumar Mitra <kamalkmitra@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] WHY WE NEED A HINDU RASHTRA?
To: "humjanenge@googlegroups.com" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
Date: Thursday, 19 July, 2012, 8:55 AMRespectedAzhar Tamboliji,I feel Pakistani & Bangladeshi constitutions are better , becuse they are based on deep religious values.K.K.MITRA
From: Azhar Tamboli <ajahar.in@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, July 18, 2012 11:08 AM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] WHY WE NEED A HINDU RASHTRA?
Dear Hemant ji & Col Kala ji ,
My main concern is this discussion should not be here because it will damage the purpose of this group. This type of discussion required but this is really not right place can have this on personal emails. And one more thing I am here not talking as representative religion I am here as responsible citizen . Here , hemant ji I can reply to your view but I would prefer to follow groups rules and have talk on personal email id. And I feel our indian constitution is best which base on secular values.
Thanking you & Best Regards,
Azhar Tamboli
Sent from BlackBerry®From: "Mr. Hemant Kshirsagar" <hemantkshirsagar01@gmail.com>Sender: humjanenge@googlegroups.comDate: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 09:35:57 +0530ReplyTo: humjanenge@googlegroups.comSubject: Re: [HumJanenge] WHY WE NEED A HINDU RASHTRA?Dear All,With respect to the mail below, as we know that the topic may be concerning "an not on topic" subject for the current conversation but please note such conversation are important for the sociey to grow and mature up!!Regarding the "The UNFORTUNATE REALITY is that the RTI movement /scene is dead. This group (and all other RTI egroups/fora) is very close to being terminal and should be shut down. Off-Topic controversial emails like this area way to keep the "fighting spirit" of us old-timers uptodate and keep some "movement" going."It is very much right as per the RTI Activists are becoming more of a blackmailers or do not help people who do not have any "money" matter in the case or the Babus are finding more and more ways for not helping the common peoples.Regarding the "Don't we know what hindu religion gave to Dalit n Women? Today indian muslim nothing but dalit who were victims of hindu religion so they adopted Islam. Before talking on about hindurashta go though manusmurti. Its just brahminical forces agenda."Now the only word is WOW how amazing the muslims all over the world treats the womens of their families drapped in the burhas and have excellent reasons for very very poor record for women liberation or rights. Women in Islam are not banned to enter the madarsa but in actual never allowed. Besides 05 womens per man and 12 kids each are totally fine. And with all due respect, regarding the castes in muslims and actions of each class against each other, (including the shia and sunni). Also treatment meted out to the Bohris by the other sub sects?Azhar, just a question, whether you would like to be treated as a muslim so to follow the Shariah Laws? Or a common citizen of India? You must recognize the problem that the rights and duties must be equal for all.Ok the point is Why I am on the Group, it is only because I remain updated with the current trends in the RTI domain and gain experience from the other far more experienced person, who share the "Burning Desire" to fuck the fucking politicos and the corrupt system. The corrupt system means government,police, armed forces, our lifes, our religions or any system which is not functioning as per it should be functioning.And regarding the religion, yes, you can say whatever you have to say, but always note, Hindu religion is not a religion, it has been the culture of continual development, peace and justice. And there was never an actual person who came and said that I am God or his son or his messenger and the rest of the people believed him. And then his descendants fought with each.I apologies for providing such straight answers but this is the truth, also if I may have hurted your sentiments.Note for Oldies:- Please sleep after 23:00 hrs to 04:00 hrs atleast, because your health is useful in the afternoon for fighting the babus. These Babus wont provide you answer in the night as even in the broad daylight they are interested for looting the country not in being righteous with their jobs and responsibilities.SBR:- please publish this mail.Regards,Hemant
On Wed, Jul 18, 2012 at 8:44 AM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Azhar
Let me concur with your views.
This group does have a filtering mechanism in place to stop such kind
of Off-Topic emails.
The fact that such emails get through is in itself part of the
filtering process as we constantly attempt to improve the ratio of
"signal to noise" at the group. As part of this improvement process
you may have noticed that the volume of emails on this group has been
continually lowered to a point which the group moderators are
comfortable with. (NB: The group still receives about 15-20 emails
every day - but only about 4 or 5 get through).
The UNFORTUNATE REALITY is that the RTI movement /scene is dead. This
group (and all other RTI egroups/fora) is very close to being terminal
and should be shut down. Off-Topic controversial emails like this are
a way to keep the "fighting spirit" of us old-timers uptodate and keep
some "movement" going.
Natures Law :- "The slower you move the faster you die"
Sarbajit
On 7/17/12, Azhar Tamboli <ajahar.in@gmail.com> wrote:
> Is it really necessary to discuss this subject here? This group filtering
> system n management is disappointing.
>
>
> Thanking you & Best Regards,
>
> Azhar Tamboli
>
> Sent from BlackBerry®
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: mmp kala <mmp_kala@yahoo.com>
> Sender: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2012 00:25:34
> To: <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
> Reply-To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] WHY WE NEED A HINDU RASHTRA?
>
> Dear friend,
> Pl read the holy Quran to know what Islam stands for and also read the
> history of the kingdoms which were subdued by Islamic rulers. Incidentally,
> I have read Holy Quran four times (t English ranslation approved by the
> Saudi Arabian Govt) and you will know the why of CONVERSION.
> As for Indian Muslims, they ruled the country for 1200 years and had chosen
> not to go to Pakistan of their free will as hey knew that worse was there
> for them in that country (see the plight of Muzaahirs)
> As for the Hindu religion, I am equally critical of its past as it is not
> sans blemishes. However, today Hinduism is a way of life. You may worship
> a god or another god or the Omnipotent God or no God at all, and you are
> accepted as Hindu. As for the plight of women and dalits, please do read
> the Holy Quran for the dispensation given there in for women and the
> slaves.
> Col Kala
>
> --- On Tue, 17/7/12, Azhar Tamboli <ajahar.in@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: Azhar Tamboli <ajahar.in@gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] WHY WE NEED A HINDU RASHTRA?
> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Date: Tuesday, 17 July, 2012, 3:56 PM
>
> Don't we know what hindu religion gave to Dalit n Women? Today indian muslim
> nothing but dalit who were victims of hindu religion so they adopted Islam.
> Before talking on about hindurashta go though manusmurti. Its just
> brahminical forces agenda.
>
> Thanking you & Best Regards,
>
> Azhar Tamboli
>
> Sent from BlackBerry®From: Bhushan Malgaonkar
> <bhushan_malgaonkar@yahoo.com>
> Sender: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 23:37:01 -0700 (PDT)To:
> humjanenge@googlegroups.com<humjanenge@googlegroups.com>ReplyTo:
> humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] WHY WE NEED A HINDU RASHTRA?
> Hindu religion doesn't exist. It is the vedanta also called Sanatan Dharma
> that is relevant. And such a religion which has no name of its own( Hindu is
> a word given by others) because it is open to all cannot have a non-secular
> agenda. For Vedanta is by its very nature secular(Remember what Krishna says
> in the Bhagavad Gita,"Wherever you see extraordinary holiness, know that I
> AM THERE" which includes extraordinary holiness of all religions & saints &
> mystics of all religions). Hence, the idea of Hindu Rastra is a nonsensical
> idea in my opinion probably rational only in the opinion of fanatics.
>
>
> From: Victor Cooper <victor99cooper@yahoo.com>
> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2012 4:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] WHY WE NEED A HINDU RASHTRA?
>
> Its not just Ms Banerjee. Rahul Gandhi, DV Singh, Mulyam, Lallu. .... its
> the whole lot. They do not seek votes on the basis of merit, but on the
> basis of narrow sectarian issues.
>
> --- On Mon, 7/16/12, abhijit ghosh
> <ghoshabhijit123@rediffmail.com> wrote:
>
> From: abhijit ghosh <ghoshabhijit123@rediffmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] WHY WE NEED A HINDU RASHTRA?
> To: "humjanenge@googlegroups.com" <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
> Date: Monday, July 16, 2012,
> 2:34 AM
>
> You must see the West Bengal Chief Minister in the garb of a Muslim Lady
> pampering to the whims of the vote bank (read the Muslims). It seems that
> she carries the head scarve whenever she is in the company of Muslim Groups.
> She has even gifted the Muslim clergy with a monthly allowance of Rs.2500/-
> and Government accomodation for giving AAzan from the mosques. Can anybody
> beat this hypocracy?
>
>
>
>
> From: Col Thakur Singh <thakursinghk@gmail.com>
> Sent: Mon, 16 Jul 2012 01:27:48
> To: Babu Suseelan <babususeelan@hotmail.com>, Kumar Arun
> <kumar2786@hotmail.com>, humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [HumJanenge] WHY WE NEED A HINDU RASHTRA?
> Hi
>
>
> Yes I agree with you.
>
>
> Tell me , what amendment is required to be done in our constitution for the
> change.
> There must be a particular term to replace , 'SECULAR ', with appropriate
> one and becoming a religious state.
>
>
> Regards
>
>
> Col Thakur Singh
> 919873379995
> President,
> Jan Sangh Party
> (HP)
>
>
> On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 10:57 AM, Babu Suseelan <babususeelan@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> HINDU RASHTRA: THE ONLY WAY TO STOP THE PARTISAN POLITICS THAT IS DESTRYING
> INDIA.
>
> Dr. BABU SUSEELAN
>
> Having spent most of my life abroad, and viewing and analyzing India from a
> distance, I was confronted with the good, the bad and ugliness of Indian
> politics.
> DECALARE INDIA AS A HINDU RASHTRA. This is the only one cure for the plague
> of cynicism, Islamic terrorism, and appeasement of Muslims, internal
> disturbances created by subversive agents, anti Indian attitude of the
> media, political corruption, lack of economic progress, and crises created
> by regional, criminal politicians, and inefficiency and corruption in the
> bureaucracy. Our enemies have injected so many thought viruses in Indian
> political life. The only cure for the illness and the only way out of the
> mess is to declare India as a Hindu Rashtra.
>
> From Kashmir to Kerala, the government is mismanaging the economy, public
> funds are diverted to Muslims and Christians, and coercive religious
> conversion is encouraged and supported. Instead of moving the country
> forward, the central government controlled by the uneducated Italian
> catholic lady Antonio Maino and many state governments (Except Gujarat) work
> against the interests of the majority Hindus.
>
> The Media, instead of unmasking the hypocrisy of corrupt, criminal
> politicians, subversive organizations, individuals who act as subversive
> agents who create and deepen the crises in India, endorse and support the
> patrician politics that divide the nation. For years, our media contributed
> to the climate of corruption, subversive activities polarizing the nation,
> and helped to spread the contentious and dangerous messages of Muslims and
> anti national groups.
>
> The Media supports "politics of destruction". The print and TV media also
> invite and promote corrupt, criminal politicians, subversive groups and anti
> national, anti Hindu groups on the news and talk show programs for the
> simple reason that it brings applause from our enemies.
>
> HINDU RESHTRA: SLOGAN OR CHOICE?
>
> Naming India as a Hindu Reshtra will explode the conventional wisdom. Hindus
> from Kashmir to Kerala have a role to play. If large enough members of Hindu
> community demand a Hindu Rashtra, India's criminal and corrupt politicians
> have to heed to their demands. The Hindus have to challenge criminal, anti
> India, anti Hindu politicians to do better and make them do better for
> Hindus and the Hindu Rashtra.
>
> To be honest, the crises Hindus face is now so deep and transformation
> required is so fundamental that real change can sometime feel almost
> impossible. How do we keep Hindus move with the slogan "HINDU RASHTRA" into
> a reality? We need to force Hindus into real freedom. Only free people can
> move away from cynicism into optimism.
> When Theodor Herzl in late 1895 coined the term Der Jeden Staat (Jewish
> State), he was ridiculed, insulted, and called him a delusional misfit.
> Instead of all negative publicity, Theodor Herzl was successful in creating
> a Zionist movement which resulted in the birth of a Jewish state in 1948.
> Herzl's slogans provided the settings at which Jewish politicians could work
> hard to establish Israel, and the only Jewish state in the world. Now Jews
> around the world supports the Jewish state. Zionism support Jews upholding
> their Jewish identity and opposes Jewish discrimination, exclusion, and
> persecution around the world.
>
> Jewish people have been forced to wander around the world for more than 2000
> years. Without any Jewish state, Muslims and Christians, through a
> combination of anti Jewish attitudes and measures have been discriminating,
> and even killing Jewish people. Now, a total of 15 million Jewish people
> exist in the world. But they are a powerful force to be reckoned with. With
> 7.5 billion Islamic people with 71 Islamic nations could not wipe out tiny
> democratic, progressive peace loving and pluralist Israel. Israel is
> committed to Cultural identity, commitment for pluralistic values, and
> respect for freedom and positive outlook, economic progress and democracy.
> These democratic values, freedom and progress are possible only with Hindus
> declaring India as a Hindu Rashtra. Naming India as a Hindu Rashtra may
> generate both positive and negative comments and images and expectations
> from friends and foes.
>
> Our own hope has been dramatically renewed by recent conference organized by
> Hindu Janjagrathi at Goa. It seems Hindus are slowly waking up from the
> slumber by the miraculous work by Tapan Ghosh and Radheshyam Brahmachari in
> West Bengal, Hindu Aykavedi in Kerala, and Hindu Munnani in Tamilnadu and
> Hindu organizations in different parts of India is working for a Hindu
> Rashtra. More important, these Hindu movements offer a campaign plan.
>
> Intellectuals and prominent professional luminaries from different parts of
> the world have written and expatiated the abstract concept, the functional
> concept, strategies and action plan for a Hindu rastra. Tapan Ghosh and
> Brahmachari (Calcutta), Dr. Bala Aiyer (Houston) Bhagavat Goel (New Delhi)
> V. Sundaram (Chennai), Deivamuthu (Mumbai) Aryan Kstsris, and Arish Sahani
> (New York) Dr. Subramaniya Swami (New Delhi) Swami Jyothi (Bangalore) Dr.
> Togadia (New Delhi) Sarvarkar Vinayak (London) have written and advocated
> all Hindus to build around a set of creative ideas, to get Hindus moving.
> Hindus can now say that Hindu Rashtra is not a slogan but a concrete
> reality. Whenever we feel stuck, paralyzed, intimidated, or overwhelmed,
> whenever we feel helpless and hopeless, we need to understand, that our
> situation is never as static as it may appear to be. Hope
> always involves that breaking open of new possibilities from seemingly
> hopeless circumstances. We know too well the death and mayhem resulting from
> nefarious activities of the bogus secular, criminal, corrupt anti national,
> anti Hindu politicians. We know the destruction caused by atheist, phony
> secularists who relentlessly work against Hindus and for appeasing Muslims
> and our enemies. We have to include in our activities and in our
> deliberations ways to overcome the destruction caused by the anti national
> political parties. We need to plant seeds of change in every Hindu who are
> indoctrinated and brainwashed to act like zombies for our enemies.
>
> Unlike Islam, Marxism, and Christianity Hindu Dharma is a closed dogma and
> we do not have any sect or way of worship or one Messiah, or one prophet.
> Hindus have different Panthas or ways of worship. We respect and approve the
> Vedic system, Buddhist system, Jainism, Sikhism, Vaishnava, Shaiva, Shakta,
> Ligayat, Arya Samaj, Brahma Samaj and these special ways reach the truth.
> Hindus respect and approve Bhakti Marga, Jnana Marga, and Karma Marga
> according to one's intellectual and physical inclination, capacity and
> nature. According to Dr. Radhakrishnan Hinduism is not a closed dogma or
> sect but it is a great commonwealth who believe in Dharma and truth who seek
> Vasudeva Kudambakham.
> Hindus call our way of life as santhan Dharma. Hindu Dharma promotes
> freedom, democracy, pluralism, and respect nature and wholeness of all
> living and non- living entities. Our great Rishis have developed different
> thought system and means to achieve equanimity, patience, health,
> forgiveness, control of mind, purity of thought and action, peace, progress,
> development of the intellect, knowledge and transcendental achievement.
>
> The concept of Rshtra is nothing new. It can be found in Rig Veda. From
> ancient days to modern times, Hindu Rashtra was in existence. Eminent
> personalities have again and again insisted that Bharat Bhumi is punyaBhumi
> and now the time has come that Hindus around the world must join together
> and declare Bharat as a HINDU RASHTRE.
> Hindu Rashtra may polarize ant national, anti Hindu people. Social issues
> may be created by our enemies. It is likely that these issues will come
> before Hindus. These issues only add fuel to an already explosive climate
> created by our distracters. Hindus must face it, confront it and resolve
> social issues that may be created by ant Hindu forces. Hindus have to work
> together for a change. Hindus have too many enemies who want to destroy us
> from within and without. Hindus should not be reluctant to take the first
> step to declare Bharat as a Hindu Rashtra. Does anyone believe that it is
> not a good thing?
>
>
>
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