Sunday, April 28, 2019

Re: [IAC#RG] IAF (Air HQ) says : Alleged Balakot air strike never happened ?

The helicopter "crash" was widely covered. And, the consequent deaths as well. 

But, there was, to my knowledge, sparsely any talk of "friendly fire".

Please correct me, if you like, with ***evidence***

Sukla  



On Mon, 29 Apr 2019, 09:12 Anant Trivedi <trivedianant@gmail.com wrote:
I recall everything you describe, from electronic and print media at the time. The deaths of own service personnel and friendly fire. There was speculation amongst the villagers that this was an enemy aircraft. But IAF did not conceal the truth. 

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019, 9:06 am Sukla Sen, <sukla.sen@gmail.com> wrote:
The helicopter "crash" was widely covered. And, the consequent deaths as well. 

But, there was, to my knowledge, sparsely any talk of "friendly fire".

Please correct me, if you like, with evidence. 

Sukla 

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019, 08:58 Anant Trivedi <trivedianant@gmail.com wrote:
The helicopter shooting down was widely covered by both electronic and print media. There was no concesling of this info. 

On Mon, 29 Apr 2019, 8:16 am Sukla Sen, <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
For a brief comprehensive account: 'Further Exposure on Balakot Bluff: 'IAF findings that India shot down own helicopter put on hold until after elections (Updated with IAF rebuttal and my response)'' at <https://groups.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/greenyouth/IcTSWbDQ1cI>.

One may find the above relevant, in the current context. 

Sukla 

P.S.: Is also reproduced below.  
Further Exposure on Balakot Bluff: 'IAF findings that India shot down own helicopter put on hold until after elections (Updated with IAF rebuttal and my response)'
27 Aprme

[Let's recap.

I. On the last Feb. 14, no less than than 40 CRPF jawans got killed, in Pulwama, on account of an act of suicide bombing by a local Kashmiri youth - travelling in a vehicle driven by him, rather recently recruited to a terrorist organisation (ref.: <https://in.reuters.com/article/india-kashmir-bomber/kashmir-suicide-bomber-radicalised-after-beating-by-troops-parents-say-idINKCN1Q41M2>), Jaish-e Mohammad, headquarterd in Pakistan.
It was by far the severest attack (ref.: <https://www.indiaspend.com/as-car-bomb-kills-44-crpf-troopers-94-rise-in-death-toll-of-security-forces-in-jk-in-4-years/>), in terms of loss of lives, that too of uniformed men, in decades.

II. Twelve days thereafter, on February 26, India launched missile attack within Pakistani territory, beyond the disputed zone, in Balakot in the Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province.


Quite interestingly, the claims of damage, by the representatives of the GoI and the ruling party varied widely, wildly oscillating between zero and 400 (ref.: <https://twitter.com/myogiadityanath/status/1100787313330728960> and <https://www.telegraphindia.com/india/ashanka-what-happens-in-balakot-stays-in-balakot/cid/1686249>).

III. The next morning, on Feb. 27th, Pakistan, sort of, reciprocated the Indian move, carrying out an aerial attack breaching the LoC.
The outcome was matter of controversy.
Pakistan claimed to down two Indian fighter jets and India claimed downing one Pak fighter jet.
The Indian claim was, again, rather unsurprisingly, outright rejected by Pakistan, but, also would be, sort of, negated by a prestigious American journal (ref.: <https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/04/04/did-india-shoot-down-a-pakistani-jet-u-s-count-says-no/?fbclid=IwAR1VEhAkoBQklAMEpdodFq-ZSh9ToILRpspTjp2wP7GTLUFgKR0IatlAshQ>).
India, in turn, rejected the Pak claim of downing a second Indian aircraft.
What, however, came out undisputed is that India lost a fighter jet with pilot captured by Pakistan, who would be released two days thereafter.


V. What, however, needs be highlighted here that on Feb. 22, in Washington, the US President had observed, after his meeting with a visiting Chinese trade delegation: "India is looking at something very strong [emphasis added]. And I mean, India just lost almost 50 people with an attack. So, I could understand that also."
He'd also further add: "We are talking and a lot of people are talking. But, it is a very, very delicate balance going on right now. There's a lot of problems between India and Pakistan because of what just happened ... We're very much involved in that ... It's a terrible thing going on right now between Pakistan and India... it is a very, very bad situation and it's a very dangerous situation between the two countries. We would like to see it stopped."

On the following 26th, India would launch the Balakot air-strike.

On Feb. 28th, Trump, in Hanoi, said: "We have reasonably attractive news from Pakistan and India. They have been going at it and we have been involved trying to have them stop. [Emphasis added.] We have some reasonably decent news. I think hopefully that it's going to come to an end ... There has been a lot of dislike, unfortunately. So we have been in the middle trying to help them out, see if there is some organisation and peace. I think that is probably going to happen soon now.* (Ref.: <https://indianexpress.com/article/india/india-pakistan-tensions-to-end-soon-have-reasonably-decent-news-donald-trump-5604820/> and <https://c-6rtwjumjzx7877x24nrl-x78-rx78s-htrx2efpfrfnejix2esjy.g01.msn.com/g00/3_c-6bbb.rx78s.htr_/c-6RTWJUMJZX77x24myyux78x3ax2fx2fnrl-x78-rx78s-htr.fpfrfneji.sjyx2fyjsfsyx2ffrux2fjsynydnix2fGGZgTa5.nrlx3fmx3d119x26bx3d279x26rx3d1x26vx3d15x26tx3dkx26qx3dkx26cx3d793x26dx3d13x26n65h.rfwpx3dnrflj_$/$/$/$/$>.)

Later, the same day, the Pak Prime Minister Imran Khan announced the decision to release the captured Indian Pilot the next day, by way of addressing a joint session of the National Assembly.
The tensions got very palpably defused.

The conclusion becomes, thereby, almost inescapable that as in 1999, in the wake of Kargil war (ref.: <http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/14/the-story-of-how-nawaz-sharif-pulled-back-from-nuclear-war/> and <https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/WCPD-1999-07-12/pdf/WCPD-1999-07-12-Pg1278.pdf>), the subcontinent escaped a looming nuclear apocalypse, by the skin of teeth, on account of forceful external interventions.

VI. Getting back to the Balakot, and its immediate aftermath, the write-up reproduced below shows up that it was because of "friendly fire" that an IAF Mi-17V5 helicopter got downed during this period, on Feb. 27, resulting in loss of precious lives of six IAF personnel and a civilian on the ground.
The report of the coirt of inquiry is deliberately held back, to sustain a false narrative of euphoria. (Ref., e.g.: 'This election is about taking revenge for martyrs, says (BJP President Amit) Shah' at <https://indianexpress.com/elections/lok-sabha-election-amit-shah-bjp-pulwama-balakot-narendra-modi-5697034/?fbclid=IwAR2bWec32zeCHBLX3KJolAa3pmxPt2GQzprBP-EpHvhBG6CYSNKZW6hWmHo>.)

VII. But, the stark fact remains that at the end of the day, India has lost one fighter jet, with its pilot having been captured by the enemy and then released, and, also, another helicopter, resulting in the loss of seven lives, including those of six IAF personnel.
With nothing, just nothing, to show in return.
In the process, the subcontinent faced the very real threat of extinction via nuclear apocalypse, which it could narrowly escape, thanks to external interventions.

The Indian Air Force (IAF) has been told to keep on hold the findings of a "court of inquiry" (CoI) that has conclusively determined that an IAF Mi-17V5 helicopter was shot down by an Indian missile battery that was guarding Srinagar air base.
A senior helicopter pilot, of the rank of air commodore, heads the CoI.
Six IAF personnel and a civilian on the ground died in that "friendly fire" incident on February 27. Top IAF sources say the incident happened after officers from the ground missile battery misidentified the IAF chopper as a Pakistani aircraft on a mission to attack Srinagar.
The disaster took place the day after IAF fighters had struck a Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) terrorist camp in Pakistan to retaliate against a JeM suicide bomb attack 12 days earlier, which killed over 40 Indian troopers in Pulwama, near Srinagar.
The CoI has found that, with IAF and army units across Jammu & Kashmir (J&K) in a state of hair-trigger alert against expected Pakistani retaliation, two crucial omissions led to the missile battery opening fire and downing their own helicopter.

(Excerpted from below.)]


Saturday, 27 April 2019

IAF findings that India shot down own helicopter put on hold until after elections (Updated with IAF rebuttal and my response)

The smoking remains of the chopper after it was shot down by an IAF missile near Budgam

By Ajai Shukla


The Indian Air Force (IAF) has been told to keep on hold the findings of a "court of inquiry" (CoI) that has conclusively determined that an IAF Mi-17V5 helicopter was shot down by an Indian missile battery that was guarding Srinagar air base.

A senior helicopter pilot, of the rank of air commodore, heads the CoI.

Six IAF personnel and a civilian on the ground died in that "friendly fire" incident on February 27. Top IAF sources say the incident happened after officers from the ground missile battery misidentified the IAF chopper as a Pakistani aircraft on a mission to attack Srinagar.

The disaster took place the day after IAF fighters had struck a Jaish-e-Mohammad (JeM) terrorist camp in Pakistan to retaliate against a JeM suicide bomb attack 12 days earlier, which killed over 40 Indian troopers in Pulwama, near Srinagar.

The CoI has found that, with IAF and army units across Jammu & Kashmir (J&K) in a state of hair-trigger alert against expected Pakistani retaliation, two crucial omissions led to the missile battery opening fire and downing their own helicopter.

First, to guard against misidentification of aircraft in the prevailing state of alert, all IAF aircraft coming in to land in Srinagar were required to approach the air base only through a designated air corridor. Ground missile units would know that the aircraft approaching through the narrow "funnel" was a friendly aircraft.

For reasons that remain unclear, the Mi-17V5 helicopter was not in the safe corridor as it approached from the direction of Budgam, to the south of Srinagar. The ground missile units assumed the radar track they picked was that of a hostile aircraft.

Second, IAF aircraft are equipped with an electronic device called an Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system, which beams out a coded signal that identifies the aircraft as a friendly one to all IAF radars and IFF receivers. The IFF system is required to be switched on, especially in a situation where ground missile units are on high alert.

For reasons that remain unclear, the CoI has found that the ill-fated helicopter's IFF system was not switched on that day.

IAF officers say they are keen to serve justice quickly and make an example of those found guilty of operational lapses. However, they are held back by a "go-slow" order from above.

They say the reason is: With the Balakot bombing and the Pakistani response, including the alleged shooting down of a Pakistani F-16 fighter, being painted in election campaigning as a major Indian victory, admitting the loss of a helicopter and seven personnel due to friendly fire would present a bleaker picture.

On February 27, the downing of the helicopter was obscured by the media attention on the downing of an IAF MiG-21 Bison fighter and the capture of Wing Commander Abhinandan Varthaman.

The IAF has declined to comment, stating: "The CoI is still in progress". Asked specifically about the delay in finalising the findings of the CoI, the IAF said: "The time line of any CoI cannot be predicted."

It is learned that the missile that was fired was an Israeli short-range surface to air missile (SR-SAM), which can engage incoming targets at ranges out to 20 kilometres. While engaging targets at those ranges, there is no scope for visual identification. Aircraft are merely a blip on a radar.

The incoming helicopter was engaged with the permission of the Base Air Defence Officer at Srinagar, who was required to satisfy himself that targets being engaged were indeed hostile.

==============

Update:

In response to this article, the Indian Air Force tweeted at 10:26 a.m. on April 27:

"Today in an article written by Ajai Shukla he has incorrectly speculated that the IAF Court of Inquiry constituted to investigate the Mi-17 V5 crash at Srinagar on 27 Feb has been put on hold. This is his imagination and IAF categorically denies this."

"CoI of aircraft accidents are meticulous & time consuming. All past inquiries of aircraft accidents bear testimony to this. Proceedings of a CoI are not commented upon by IAF till completion of the inquiry in all cases. There is no connection between elections & completion of CoI."

Ajai Shukla responds:

This corespondent contacted the Indian Air Force for comments before publishing the article. The report carried their comments: "The CoI is still in progress" and "The time line of any CoI cannot be predicted."

The IAF accepts the article's basic point: that, two months after the deaths of seven persons in a "friendly fire" incident, the CoI has not been finalised.

None of the other details in the report, about how and why an IAF missile battery shot down an IAF helicopter, are being rebutted by the IAF.

The IAF claims that a two-month delay in finalising a CoI relating to an operational debacle is normal. However, top IAF officers say the delay in finalising the CoI has been imposed from above.

I stand by the report, which is based on inputs from two highly credible IAF officers.

Peace Is Doable


sukla.sen@gmail.com  -  Switch accounts  -  Desktop


On Sat, 27 Apr 2019, 18:54 Sarbajit Roy <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net wrote:
Dear Robin
Please fnd images

SMALL_PGMS_IAF.jpg

and also

SMALL_20190426_122548.jpg

On Sat, Apr 27, 2019 at 12:15 PM Robin Deans <robin_deans@hotmail.com> wrote:
Dear Mr. Roy,
                       rather than post a gist of your claimed reply to your RTI inquiry, It would have been appropriate had you posted a scanned copy of the reply so that the source could be established/authenticated.  I fully endorse Vijay's views 
Best wishes
Robin Deans


From: indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net <indiaresists-request@lists.riseup.net> on behalf of Vijay Shivdasani <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net>
Sent: Friday, April 26, 2019 3:13 AM
To: rnsgss@gmail.com
Cc: Sarbajit Roy; indiaresists
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] IAF (Air HQ) says : Alleged Balakot air strike never happened ?
 
Dear Mr Sarbajit Roy,
I do not think IAC should be involved in such a matter. I think the attack on Balakot has had its own favourable consequences (notwithstanding your RTI findings). I am not even sure this is an issue under your charter. Had I been Chief of the Airforce and there was any hanky-panky, I would not have put out the briefings which are on record. (I am NOT being naive!) I urge you to concentrate your energies on the many corruption cases which exist.
Sincerely,
Vijay Shivdasani

On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 9:50 AM Ramesh Sharma <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
It is better to presume that no strike took place than to get into any unnecessary discussion/ argument about it. 

The armed forces need to be kept out of all the nonsense that goes on in political circles. 

Why politicise the armed forces?

Regards,

Ramesh Sharma


On Fri, Apr 26, 2019 at 9:06 AM Sarbajit Roy <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
Dear Shri S.P. Mathur, IPS (Retd)

You would be interested to know that as per official filings I have made to Ministry of Defence immediately after alleged Balakot air strike, the MoD and Air HQ presently claim (in interim updates) that they have no information about the Balakot air strike or its damage assessments or number of persons who were injuriously affected by it. (NB: This is very different from refusing me the information under national security exemptions which they could very well choose to do).

Because of the careful and precise way my duly registered and acknowledged (and long overdue for disposal) communications to Min of Defence were made, they are now unable to dispose of them and are apparently internally laying the blame at doorstep of politicians and Ministry of External Affairs for giving wrong briefings. There are notings of protest inside Air HQ and MoDef that Armed forces are being misused for political purposes.

As a consequence of IAC's communications on this issue, MEA Minister Sushma Swaraj was forced to publicly concede that nobody was killed as a result of the (alleged) Balakot air strike.

Accordingly, you can rest assured that IAC is doing its work silently, as a very potent force, within the corridors of power to ensure that the steel frames do not get corroded or converted to plastic by rogue politicians.

sincerely


Sarbajit Roy
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