Thursday, September 24, 2015

Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP

Dear Sir

As regards to priority in pay scales of Armed forces and IAS care is concerned, Yes it should be there, if in 6th pay commission Armed forces were left, they should be compensated atleat in 7th pay commission. Then armed forces should fight with Govt on this issue and not OROP

S.K.Kapoor



On Friday, September 25, 2015 8:11 AM, bcs <vaidy1953@gmail.com> wrote:


this is the first time i am responding in this group

I am a retired Naval officer and since I saw OROP as subject , I could not resist

i am not here to criticise babus and others who are the biggest obstacles to anything good for military perople- serving or retired

i want the nation to imagine this scenario -  the military goes on STRIKE like railways or banks or central government 

is there any one else who can take over the roles

wheras in most of the civilian strikes the military has and can step in to at least keep the essentials going

and if we go on strike what will our neighbours do ?

the day a soldier is made to ask for his rights [ promised by govts ] that is the dooms day for the nation

i repent for having spent my productive life in the defence --- 

what a shame

On Wed, Sep 23, 2015 at 3:42 PM, Natarajan <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
Let us leave it to political parties to justify one wrong on the basis of another. They are beyond redemption. The country is bleeding under the burden of salaries paid to bureaucrats till their spouses' death or their own death whichever occurs later. Pay commissions are merely an excuse to enhance the salaries , pensions and DA perpetually. Pay commissions are composed of chairman and members who have conflict of interest. Someone in each member's family stands to benefit from the recommendations. They have been making irresponsible recommendations without regard for fairness or the country's ability to pay.  Fairness demands that only the poor be protected against inflation. However while poor farmers are committing suicide, daily workers in construction sites do not even have proper food, and there is so much bonded labour, thanks to our administrative and political system,  babu secretaries and generals are being given 100% neutralization for inflation even after retirement. This is such a shame. I will be happy if our brave retired Generals would question this inequity and demand a lowering of such benefits to Civilians and enhancing the living conditions of the poor instead of competing with the latter to loot this country in the name of patriotism. In fact the entire exploitative bubu-dom including many in the armed forces is responsible for this situation. If they don't mend their ways, the entire society will rise in wrath. 
With regards
Prof N.Natarajan



On Wednesday, 23 September 2015 2:42 PM, Satish Kumar Kapoor <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:


Dear Sir

i know a lot about Developed countries and lived there.
i know pension in IAS/IES cadres and other Govt Departments. i belong to family mostly in jobs.
In my opinion a country where 50% population even does not get two meals per day, demand of forces is unjustified particularly for higher rank officers.
Pension is calculated on last pay drawn and Govt gives DA to neutralise increase in cost of living (not ofcourse 100%) , moreover after certain period Govt appoints pay commission and again gives some increase. Besides all this there are more facilities to Army like  army canteen, rank pay, reservation in plots/flats being allotted by various state Governments.
i know persons in Army who apply for properties in almost all states and when allotted sell at higher price.

according to Govt, govt has already given an increase of 25% in pension.

Why then still asking for more? greed has no limits

S.K.Kapoor



On Wednesday, September 23, 2015 12:07 AM, PA Kumaran <pakumaran@gmail.com> wrote:


Mr Satish Kumar Kapoor & others

1.    I am surprised that you ,like the politicians, talk of why a General should get Rs 80,000 + ? What percentage makes this category ? Any idea ? It is less than 1% - hence do not hood wink others to quote figures to make believe in what you say. Are you aware that 100% OROP is already applicable to bureaucrats, Judiciary, Parliamentarians etc.

2.    Do you know ?
        (a) After the Great Victory in 1971,as a reward,  the Govt reduced the pension of Defence Persons from 70 % to 50 % and at the same time increased their ( bureaucrats & others) pension from 30 % to 50 %.
       (b)  In the 6th Pay commission, NFU was doled out to others (less Armed Forces), where in all IAS, IPS& Group 'A' Services would retireat the highest pay scale, ensuring highest pension + OROP. They left Defence Forces out of it
        (c) The IAS,IPS and Central Forces also gave themselves ACP - Assured Career Progression, but again the Forces were left out. Thus Defence Forces were made below the civilian counter parts and systematically brought down in protocol list. Result - % of persons joining the Forces reduced drastically . Can we afford this ?
        (d) Any natural or man made calamity - who comes to the rescue - Defence Forces. Be it floods, earth quake, tsunami - Army is called out.
        (e) Nehru wanted to disband the existing Army and said India does not need Army and Police and Para military forces would do the job . Then came 1962 when Chinese attacked India, with their pants down. What was the result ! Read books on this. History will tell you.
         (e) For OROP we need 8,300 crores. What is this amount - a chicken feed for a country like ours ! We talk of scams of lakhs of crores. Donation to Bihar (political wooing) 1,25,000 crores !!!
         (f)  You may be surprised to know that, there is no representative of Defence Services in Central Pay Commission, in spite of several requests. The forthcoming 7th Pay Commission is also without any representation from Defence.
         (g) Defence Forces are debarred from having Unions, Strikes etc . Civilians can resort to these tactics to put forth their demands on Salary etc and more often that not they are successful.
         (h) The Committee ordered by the Govt to look into the OROP has recommended it. Both UPA Govt and  NDA Govt has passed it in Parliament and finally Supreme Court has also asked for early implementation of OROP. In fact Govt of India has been served with Contempt of Court.

3.  Suffice to mention the above.There are many more such injustices done and the Defence Forces which will need volumes to write.


 With Regards
Col PA Kumaran (Retd)    



On Thu, Sep 17, 2015 at 11:53 AM, Satish Kumar Kapoor <indiaresists@lists.riseup.net> wrote:
can any supporter of OROP tell name of any country where this type of pension is there?

These Ex-forces officers are just blackmailing politicians and country. There makes sense only if this is limited to non-commissiones cadre, Why a Col/Lt Col, Brigadiar and persons in rank of Generals, who are getting Rs50000 to Rs80000/= pension shoud get almost double pension
why a person who retired 10 years ago should get same pension the person who will retire today or after years will get?

country where almost 50% population does not get two meals perday, giving money at their cost is crime.

S.K.Kapoor
Retired Sr Dy General Manager





On Thursday, September 17, 2015 7:26 AM, m.g.r. rajan <mgr_rajan@hotmail.com> wrote:


I am a supporter of OROP since the time it was first mentioned, many years ago, but not implemented by the BJP or Congress when they were in power. I have family members who served in the forces, and have taken great pride in watching the Armed Forces at the Republic Day Parade and other occassions. Like the Veterans in UK, USA and European countries, we need to let our retired forces live with dignity. A lot of things have been doled out to them, like subsidised goods at armed forces canteens, low cost liquor, petrol pumps etc etc. There are on record instances of mis-use of position (which no doubt happens in other cadres too). I expect that all these doles can be withdrawn if they are paid well, while in service and when retired from service so that they can lead a dignified life.
MGR Rajan

 

Date: Thu, 10 Sep 2015 05:01:59 +0530
From: prakashkatoch7@gmail.com
To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
CC: cvsmurty@yahoo.com; balijepally@gmail.com; sastrykvv@gmail.com; vokaytrain@yahoo.com; krishnasagar@gmail.com; ckrishlak@gmail.com; seshasai.jandyala@gmail.com; avseshagirirao@yahoo.com; guna.turaga@gmail.com; arsastry@navanidhi.com; sastrym@deshaw.com; himakartata@yahoo.com; rajukandukuri53@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Fwd: OROP


On Tue, Sep 8, 2015 at 2:27 PM, tadepalli triambakakishore <ltcolttkishore@gmail.com> wrote:


Even though the issue of OROP has had a large number of emails in circulation , this is still worth a read.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Please circulate to 1.3 billion Indians-
WHY DO THE POLITICIANS AND THE BUREAUCRATS DESPISE THE INDIAN ARMED FORCES SO MUCH??
Dear People Of India,
As you know OROP (One Rank One Pension) has been announced though with some warts which need rectification and after getting the war heroes and war widows, many in their eighties, on the streets, a sad spectacle. As there has been a lot of disinformation and lack of awareness, you need to know some facts. These have gone unnoticed.
1 We are Indian Army Soldiers. Countries like the US and UK and most other advanced democracies, with Armies that are facing conflict, venerate the men and women who serve in the Armed Forces. The UK parliament has even passed a law called Armed Forces Covenant . An Armed Forces Covenant is the expression of the moral obligation that the government and the nation owe to the armed forces community. The covenant acknowledges that members of the armed forces sacrifice some freedoms and often face dangerous situations. It recognises that families play a vital role in supporting the operational effectiveness of the armed forces. It is only in India where our men and women have to go through the humiliation of a comparison with a discredited bureaucracy. 
 In the United States, 15 presidents have served in the Army/Army Reserve , 9 in the State Militias, 6 in the Navy/Naval Reserve, with 2 presidents having serving in the Continental Army. In addition, eight presidents served during World War II, while seven served in the military during the American Civil War. That was the kind of military service they did before becoming the President and Commander in Chief of the US of America. No wonder they respect their Armed Forces and their Veterans. 
 2 Your Armed Forces  cannot be compared with the IAS,  IPS, BSF, CRPF, ITBP,  CISF , NSG,  Railway Protection Force, Rapid Deployment Force or the State Armed Police Forces.
 A Nation can have only one Military. 
The renowned sociologist Morris Janowitz had famously said: "The intimate social solidarity of the military profession is both envied and resented by civilians." A bureaucrat is in no way comparable to a man or woman who serves in the Armed Forces. Nowhere is this comparison even attempted, not in the United States, the United Kingdom or even China. It's laughable and making that comparison is ludicrous. Neither can the Armed Forces be compared or equated to other police forces of a Country.
3   WE ARE ACCOUNTABLE TO YOU AND TO NO ONE ELSE BECAUSE :
        (a)  WE  HAVE PLEDGED TO PROTECT YOU, AND WE LIKE TO KEEP OUR WORD !
        (b). WE  ARE SURE THAT YOU LOVE US AND WE KNOW THAT YOU BELIEVE THAT THE INDIAN MILITARY IS THE LAST BASTION OF HOPE WHEN THE GOVT MACHINERY, IAS,  IPS, BSF, CRPF, ITBP,  CISF , NSG,  RPFHAVE FAILED ----- AND WHEN FINALLY THE ARMED FORCES FAIL ; INDIA WILL BE LOST.       
PLEASE KNOW THESE FACTS.
4  THE GOVT, FINANCE MINISTRY AND THE IAS/IPS LOBBY IS DENYING YOUR SOLDIERS OROP UNDER THE PLEA OF FINANCIAL SCARCITY . THE FOLLOWING WILL TELL YOU THEIR SCARCITY : 
        (a)  OROP ALREADY EXISTS FOR 100% OF THE BUREAUCRATS, JUDICIARY AND  ALL THE PARLIAMENTARIANS.
        (b).  OUR PENSION WAS BROUGHT DOWN  FROM 70% to 50 %WHILE THEIRS WAS RAISED  FROM 30% TO 50% IN THE 3rd CPC . 
        (c).  IN THE 6th CPC THEY DOLED OUT NFU - A SYSTEM BY WHICH ALL IAS, IPS OFFICERS & GROUP A SERVICES  (LESS ARMED FORCES)  WOULD RETIRE AT THE HIGHEST PAY SCALE -THEREBY GIVING THEM HIGHEST PENSION PLUS OROP. THEY LEFT FORCES OUT OF IT.
        (d).  THE IAS ,IPS  and the CENTRAL SERVICES  also gave themselves ACP -  ASSURED CAREER PROGRESSION - BUT AGAIN LEFT FORCES OUT OF IT . BY DOING THIS , THEY BROUGHT US DOWN SEVERELY AND HAVE MADE THE FORCES LEAST LUCRATIVE AND LEAST HONORABLE JOB. Without doubt the aim was to downgrade the Armed Forces of India. OUR ENEMIES ARE HAPPY AND WATCHING THIS GREAT DRAMA WITH GLEE ! Do you know that till date  a DIG was was between a Lt Col and a Col . Now a Col has been equated with Non-Functional Selection Grade (NFSG). The rank of a DIG  is now officially equal to a Brigadier. Both are now on a Grade Pay of Rs 8900. Because of the machinations of the Govt and the Central Services to run down the Military.
         (e)   THEY CAN  "DONATE"  $ 1 MILLION TO MONGOLIA, DONATE 1.25 LAC CRORE TO A STATE VOTE BANK, LET SCAMS OF LACS OF CRORE IN GOVT , IPL AND BCCI, give bailouts of hundreds of LAKHS to AIR INDIA but feel poor when it comes toRs. 8,300 crores for the Armed Forces personnel who  are" FORCED " TO RETIRE YOUNG SO THAT THE NATION CAN SLEEP EASY. 
       
          
5  It is not just Modi's promise but a four decade old promise, AN APPROVED PARLIAMENTARY COMMITTEE (KOSHIARY ) REPORT, A FAVOURABLE SC JUDGMENT (Maj Gen Vains ) and a promise by all Govts.
6  YOU CANNOT REMAIN INSULATED  AND SEE VETERANS AND WIDOWS IGNORED AND THE STATUS AND PARITY OF THE INDIAN ARMED FORCES vis-a- vis  OTHER GOVT SERVANTS DISTORTED. AND THIS HAS BEEN HAPPENING SINCE 1947 !!
7  GOD FORBID IF ONE OF YOUR OWN SON or DAUGHTER or RELATIVE IS IN THE FORCES ~~ WOULD YOU STILL FEEL THE SAME ?? WILL YOU SEND YOUR NEXT GENERATION TO THE ARMED FORCES NOW ??
..
8  WE ARE BARRED FROM STRIKES , PROTESTS, UNIONS ETC -FOR REASONS OF DISCIPLINE , BUT REST OF THE COUNTRY CAN GET WHAT THEY WANT ANY TIME BY RESORTING TO RIOTING, RAIL-ROKO etc !
9 HAVE WE EVER FAILED YOU IN PEACE,  WAR OR TERRORISM, RIOTS, FLOODS, EARTHQUAKE ??   JUST  LAST WEEK, EVEN THE SMALL SCALE  RIOTS IN GUJARAT COULD NOT BE CONTROLLED BY THE POLICE OR THE PARA MIL FORCES ( !! ) AND THE ARMY DID THE JOB !! 

CAN THIS  NATION SURVIVE WITHOUT ITS ARMED FORCES  ?? 
REMEMBER SALARY MAKES US DO OUR JOB BUT ITS HONOR AND RECOGNITION THAT IMPELS US TO EMBRACE DEATH WILLINGLY WHILE EXECUTING OUR JOB.THE POLITICIANS AND BUREAUCRATS HAVE DISHONOURED US.
 





--
LTCOL(retd) T T KISHORE


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--
With Regards,
Col PA Kumaran (Retd)




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