Friday, June 18, 2010

Re: [rti_india] Re: Fee for First and Second Appeals


The reason I was concentrating only on the "fees for first and second appeal" parts of the RTI Rules and Appeal procedure rules was because that was the subject matter of the discussion.
You have a valid point on the other aspects covered in the Orissa Appeal Procedure Rules.

Now that you brought up other aspects (apart from fees):
Try to read some of the RTI Rules framed by High Courts. You will be able to get enough material to add a totally new chapter in the 4th edition of your book.
Some HC Rules prescribe a Penalty to be imposed by the FAA. Not only that, the quantum of penalty is well below the one prescribed in Sec 20(1).
Quite a few HC's openly state in the Rules - information will only be provided once it is approved by the CJ.
One particular HC wants you to pay the application fee only by depositing cash in one particular branch of a particular bank located in a particular city - and attach the receipt to the application as proof of payment.
There are many more but wont bore everyone.


--- On Fri, 6/18/10, ashish kr1965 <> wrote:

From: ashish kr1965 <>

In the case of DoPT / Orissa Govt who have prescribed by Rules the
form of appeal,
the verification of the appeal, and fees for appeal (without any
equivalent /explicit
enabling clause in RTI Act) why do you activists only focus on the fee
aspect and not
also challenge their requirements of form for appeal, the verification
of appeal etc ?

In passing, it is good to see that the Orissa Soochna Commission has prescribed
fees for both the 1st as well as 2nd appeals and directed that it be
in the form of
court fee stamps; exactly as I had recommended in the 1st, 2nd and 3rd edns. of
my tiny (and best selling) RTI textbook :-)


>Dear Group,
>I think it is very unfortunate that the discussion going on here is not
conducive to conducting a "debate". Instead all participants are trying to score
points off each other and evading the central issues.
>The brief facts are
>1) That Venkatesh advised Rajesh Darak on Hum Janenge that the decision of some
states to impose a fee for 2nd appeals had no basis in law. He claimed that
section 28 in particular does not provide for this.
>2) After a few days Ashish cited this post as an example of why NCPRI members
should be booted off this group (RTI_India) for deceiving the citizens etc. As
per Ashish section 27 clearly allows fees /costs to be charged for 2nd appeals.
Ashish distinguished section 27 from section 28 highlighting that section
27(2)(e) allows the govt to frame rules for "appeal procedures" which includes
the "(court) fees" to be affixed to the prescribed index (and service of process
on parties also being prescribed to be incumbent upon the CIC/SIC).
>3) Whereupon Venkatesh ridiculed ("laughable") Ashish's logic but did completely
evaded addressing Ashish's argument at all. Unfortuantely the argument had got
confused with certain allegations that Venkatesh was "anti-national". At this
point Karira (Jam) intervened and segregated out the "fees for 1st/2nd appeals"
>4) Ashish now provides a detailed (but not "long') analysis of why the CICX
(being a "court" for purposes of evidence only ..) the "Court Fee Act of 1870"
can be additionally relied upon to justify the collection of fees at the 1st/2nd
appellate stage by virtue of 19(5) of RTI Act.
Importantly he provides the complete citation for the Law Commission's report on
Fees / Costs.
>5) Regrettably, and I say this only to focus the future debate here, Venkatesh
ignores almost completely the substance of Ashish's points and meanders into a
"long" analysis of his own as to why fees cannot be charged (which IMHO is long
on rhetoric and short on substance).
>I therefore request Venkatesh and Karira to specifically address /counter
Ashish's arguments as to why, as per him, fees can be charged. This is the best
way for the debate to conclude, especially as having previously thrashed this
out with Ashish, I know he has lots of 'khuraak' held back in reserve :-).
>It would be helpful, to use provide a para-wise reply, clearly indicating
whether you agree or not with the Ashish's careful drafting, and if not BRIEFLY
why not.

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