And coming to police, judiciary etc and the de facto protection they get even without any special laws doesn't need any elaboration. Forget about crimes involving their own personnel but even in other cases the way investigators, advocates and judges act hand in glove to derail justice is common knowledge for every common citizen. If Seema Mustafa doesn't know it I really wouldn't want to comment on her competence to comment on these issues.
ravi
On Mon, Jan 28, 2013 at 10:37 AM, seema mustafa <seemamustafa@gmail.com> wrote:
The issue is about AFSPA that covers only the armed forces and not the cops being used to protect even those guilty of rape. And while I am quite prepared to face the usual barrage of jingoism, the fact remains that there is documented evidence of such rape and rapists going free in the conflict zones of India. So while cops and politicians and journalists and lawyers and teachers and every single man guilty of sexual assault needs to be tried and punished for rape, it is also essential to ensure that there are no special laws that protect him under the guise of national security.
Seema Mustafawhy debate the issue justice verma has lost it . let him go to school again.On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 2:52 PM, G.S. Beniwal <beniwalg@ymail.com> wrote:
will CJI be prosecuted if any of the subordinate judges does similar illegal act ? and PM for his subordinates ? CP for his constables/inspectors?. if yes, then justice verma is right. does only army personnel should be disciplined and not civilians ? most people do not know how fast action is taken by army against the in disciplined person/.
From: Vijoy Ambasta <vijoy.ambasta@gmail.com>To: indiaresists@lists.riseup.net
Sent: Saturday, 26 January 2013 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Justice Verma Report: Verma commission report draws armed forces' fire
If you want the borders of the country secure, AFSPA must not be diluted.For safeguarding the" rights" if we have to give up the "right to our borders", we then have to make a judicious choice. The actions of the armed forces are always under a very strict disciplined regime & the system has to have undiluted trust on that( unlike the neta/police regime in civil life) so judicial scrutiny can leave a lot of scars on our borders and on the morals of those disciplined soldiers who are guarding the borders in order that the civilians have a peaceful sleep added by the security of the nation's laws.
With all regards to Justice Verma, he has not been able to understand the importance of Nation's security in the same perspective as the armed forces do.and operate. The constitution of India is not applicable to the foreign infiltrators and who assist them i.e who are traitors.
Vijoy K AmbastaOn Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 9:40 AM, swarup sarkar <swarup1973@gmail.com> wrote:What can be our stand on this issue?
Verma commission report draws armed forces' fire
NEW DELHI: The J S Verma Committee report has come under intense criticism from security forces for suggesting "breach of command responsibility", holding a commanding officer (CO) responsible if a junior commits rape. The report's suggestion to amend the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA) has also been opposed by the armed and the paramilitary forces.
Many COs and senior officers are arguing that the breach of command responsibility was unacceptable and could lead to COs ending up in jail for upto seven years for the misdeeds of a junior.
"I have almost 1,000 personnel under me, and they are spread across some five kilometres. They could go on leave, or temporary duty. How am I to ensure their sexual conduct throughout the year, 24 hours a day?" asks the CO of an Army unit.
Officials in the Union home ministry too were taken aback by the panel's "unusual" suggestion to include "breach of command responsibility" as an offence under Section 376. "How can the officer commanding a battalion be held responsible if a junior he sends on a patrol suddenly chooses to go morally astray?" asked an officer, adding that vicarious liability in such a case is "nothing short of absurd".
Another senior officer of the security establishment indicated that the forces deployed in conflict zones like Jammu & Kashmir, Maoist-affected states and the insurgency-hit areas in the north-east, have to constantly guard against foisting of false cases by local, self-proclaimed rights groups who may actually be a front of terrorist or extremist groups. "The J S Verma committee's suggestion, if accepted, will only give such activists a legal handle to falsely implicate not only the jawan but his CO as well," the official warned.
A senior CRPF officer posted in a Naxal-infested area said, "Inserting breach of command responsibility in Section 376 is stretching the law too far. There is so much moral degradation in the society. Anyone can commit a crime on a given day. How can you hold the commanding officer responsible because a constable has gone berserk. No one will work for the forces then."
A BSF officer from the Eastern frontier added, "This is akin to jailing the mother for the crime of the son. We already have a mechanism where commanding officer is reprimanded for transgressions of a junior officer; administrative actions are taken. But punishing him for individual aberration is just not on. Unless there is an organised criminal behaviour in a unit, commanding officer cannot be held responsible."
The J S Verma Committee has recommended the introduction of a new section 376F in the Indian Penal Code (IPC) for offence of breach of command responsibility. The proposal is to hold responsible "whoever, being a public servant in command, control or supervision of the police or armed forces...or assuming command whether lawfully or otherwise, fails to exercise control over persons under his or her command, control, or supervision and as a result of such failure" rape and similar offences are committed.
The COs would be held "guilty of the offence of breach of command responsibility" if he "failed to take necessary and reasonable measures within his or her power to prevent or repress the commission of the said offences," the committee has recommended.
Presently, there is no criminal liability for a CO of an Army unit in cases where his subordinates are involved in any kind of breach of discipline. It does of course invite administrative action, or even dismissed from service. The introduction of a criminal liability by a CO for actions of a junior would add a completely new and extremely challenging burden to being a CO, say army officers.
The Committee has also recommended amendments to the Armed Forces Special Powers Act (AFSPA), saying, that "impunity for systematic or isolated sexual violence in the process of Internal Security duties is being legitimized" by AFSPA.
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