You feel that some Institutions like Election Commission are functioning properly, Is it a fact? Government controls and appoint heads pf all of such Institutions. You have not forgotten the shmozzle that had taken place while appointing Shri Navin Chawla to head the EC? The result was as brought out by EC (later) that Sonia Gandhi was NOT disqualified for election due to only him. It was surely not properly rooted (in Democracy) Institurion, isn't it?
Dear Mukund,Your thinking is exactly like mine as regards the functioning of our Indian Democracy. But you cannot deny the fact that several democratic institutions like election commission, Supeme court etc have taken deep roots. But I agree the right people are not sitting in the Lok Sabha. In fact, the intellectuals keep away fom politics. We need to pull them in. In my opinion, India is not suitable for multi party democracy at all. We need a different system altogether and yet within the mechanism of democracy..I have writtena paper on a modified form of democracy for India and have given it at the attachment. Please do read it and let me have your views. I am convinced that this is a far better system and Anna Hazaree may work on this concept.RegardsIsrael Jayakaran, Colonel(Retd), Signals, Chennai,Sent: Saturday, September 17, 2011 6:58 AMSubject: Re: [HumJanenge] Democracy is Best BUT Most Parties are Undemocratic Led By DullardsDear Sir,Not only our Democracy is not doing well but Democracy is not doing well and never will. The base of Democracy is COMPETITION. Where Competition is involved, Selfless Service will be the victim. This has been proved again & again. Can you show Democracy functioning well in any country even now?Kindly also note that except time (i.e. काल) nothing has changed from Mahabhaarat times. Only Man has changed (and become worse) Man to be peaceful and comfortable needs his worries taken away by his leaders. For that leaders need to be selfless. Under Competitive environment can you find ANY selfless leader?Read my e-mail again and ponder over before deciding, I pray.With regards to all,-------Mukund ApteOn Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 10:22 AM, jaiprakash narain <coljpn@yahoo.co.in> wrote:
I agree with u that our democracy is not doing so well as expected by or constitutional father since our Constitution itself is borrowed one n does not apply to us in spirit since 80% people living in the villages n small towns still live by their traditions n not by the constitution till the time they have to face a court case. however we nither go back to Mahabharat days nor Bhisampitah was a good example of his time since he failed to act as per his own preaching by allowing the insult of Dropti in the open court as the grand father n a best fighter.In fact our leaders r doing exectly that.But we have to find a better altenative of govenance to see that better people come for goverenance n administration,the present poltical system have miserably failed to either give justice or to provide respectable bread n butter to the people of the country in last 64 yrs the way we deamed off.
--- On Fri, 16/9/11, Mukund Apte <mdapte@gmail.com> wrote:
From: Mukund Apte <mdapte@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] Democracy is Best BUT Most Parties are Undemocratic Led By Dullards
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Cc: "Ravinder Singh" <progressindia008@yahoo.com>, "Satbir Singh" <ssbedi1945@yahoo.com>, "Vijay Oberoi" <oberoivijay@hotmail.com>, "Shri P Deivamuthu" <hinduvoicemumbai@gmail.com>
Date: Friday, 16 September, 2011, 7:19 AM
Dear Sir,I am writing below my views on Democracy. You may be able to modify your isea to certain extent (at least) is mu hope.
In Shaantiparv of Mahaabhaarat, Pitaamah Bheeshm does give advise for Dhaarmic Ruling. The king has to ensure that the basic needs of every citizen (Food, Shelter and clothing) are fulfilled to their satisfaction and any likely obstacles in their pursuit of (natural) Development from manhood to Godhead are removed from interfering. The king is considered to be failing even if single citizen remains without any of these things. King was considered to be servant of people and behaved as such. This was possible because most of the kings and/or their advisers were Debveloped Individuals. They knew individuais need and they did try with their selfishness fully under control. Most important thing in the administration was that none had anyone else to compete with. Competition makes a person jealous and puts in his efforts (even amoral ways as well) to overcome any of his shortcomings. That is why Vedas had initiated Chaaturvarny System. Every Varn had its own responsibilities without any competition or conflict. This was not known to Westerners when they started oganising themselves. And they preferred Democracy over their despot overlords that they suffered. This is most competitive way of Administration. Everyone wants to put the other one (opponent) behind. The Janataa can never be happy and contented. And we also have accepted Democracy. What we are seeing nowadats is only its result.
Not only Bhaarateey, but Democracy in any country creates such situations as at present in bhaarat. In Kerala, it is seen that people are going towards Alcohol and smoking like never before. In Maharashtra the Government declares, that they can not ban alcohol sale since it is major contributor of State Revenue. Surely they may encourage the citizens to drink it to enhance the State revenue, isn't it? The States (and of course the Centre as well) have no concern for welfare of citizens. Moreover Bhaarat has the history of Mahatma Gandhi (under whose name-banner the State is running, isn't it?) backing Prohibition.
Our Constitution can say anything, but the facts (even) about Democracy are different. Definition of Democracy can be anything but in actual fact (unless the Leaders are Developed Individuals) it can never make people (i.e. Janataa) happy and contented. Because only Developed Individual leaders can understand aspirations and hopes of the country and its Janataa really and will strive to achieve the same. Only Bhaarateey culture and Philosophy has those techniques and ways by which anyone can become developed individual and becomes 'free from selfishness'. Then let that person be a commoner, the people around him will become happy. If he becomes King or even dictator, then also no problem is faced by the country or the community at all.
Main reason for the current unstable condition in ALL the countries in the world is following Democracy as suggested or imposed by the West. No people in any country are comfortable and happy. We, Bhaarateey people are surely not happy at all.
The reason for this is the system of State Administration that we are following, 'Democracy'.
Do you really feel Democracy that we are practicing is good and effective to make all Bhaarateey people happy & comfortable with it? Please note that this system is really 'foreign' to us and was imposed by British and then continued by our Government even after 1947. Since ancient times, this Democracy was never in vogue in Bhaarat and Bhaarat was known to outsiders as 'Suvarnbhoomee'. Even foreign travelers have written that there was no beggar anywhere therein. People were happy and contented. There was no Democracy there then.
Since last 60 years Bhaarat is using Democracy and Janataa is electing its representatives to rule over self. The people or voters rarely, if at all, elected parties but the persons whom they feel were their true leaders. In Democracy, such people have no place and to do anything they have to join a political party. If that becomes ruling one, then these 'leaders' have to obey the party diktats on everything and vote for those resolutions agreed by the party. Once become ruling, that party does not give any value or importance to the election manifesto that they might have declared for getting votes. They carry out their activities and resolutions as per their predetermined agenda. They do not accept any interference of Janataa in its functioning, nor they give any value or importance to the opposition parties in the Parliament. In spite of these 'obstacles' they carry out their programmes. During all the period between elections, they are busy in collecting money for themselves and their party and also trying to keep their vote banks happy, so that they can get elected in next election also. They have no time to worry for the Nation or the people therein. Just imagine with more than 45 lakh crore rupees as GDP of Bhaarat, there is over 60% of its population not having adequate food to eat for survival. Of all people, farmers are committing suicides. It is surely not expected from a responsible Government? But this is Democracy. Counting heads for Administration of State was never considered essential in Bhaarat till now.
The elected representatives (especially the Ministers heading some Departments) do need heavy protection from the people (their voters?). How can they function under such dangerous environment of Democracy? How much money is spent on this aspect? May be diue to that only our Government cannot give food to their hungry people. Actually it is the responsibility of Government to ensure that all their citizens get their basic needs like food, shelter 7 clothing to their satisfaction, isn't it?
Whenever a small committee is formed (under Constitutional tasks) consisting members of Government as well as other parties in Parliament, its quantitative construction is based on the strengths of various groups/parties in the parliament. Surely it is understood that Government group will have larger number in them. In case their recommendations/decisions were to be dependent only on majority in the committee/s why could the Constitution made it consisting of ALL groups.parties in the parliament? It is the intention of Constitution that their decisions/recommendations must be by CONSENSUS, isn't it? But the rulers do as Democracy permits them and the cases like Shri Thomas (the recent CVC case in Bhaarat)crop up. Could it have happened but for the Democracy?
A special arrangement in Democracy (especially in Bhaarat) if you realise, is the state that the elected representatives including Ministers have to move in Bhaarat also under heavy protection. Isn't it a travesty of situation? They have been elected by majority of voters but are in danger from others. Who are these 'others'? Under such conditions can anything good is possible for all the citizens in Bhaarat by the actions/projects of the 'elected democratic' government?
Government is merrily following Western culture abandoning our own. Do not think that the Democracy being followed by West is anything superior or different. Are you aware that just 5 years before, the Democratic Party of USA had established Environmental Pollution Administration Commission to ensure that the Industry maintains the Environment pollution-free. They made some rules for the industry to follow for this purpose in the meantime. Just last year the Republicans (who have majority in Senate now) warned the EPA Commissioner not to make Industry expend more money, with environmental pollution aspect. They claim that there is no proof that the environmental pollution is due to industrial activities. Thus USA 'Democracy' leaders also are not concerned with Earth (leave aside mere USA). Whatever one party (when it was in majority) had done, the other just dismantles the same when their chance comes. Currently, the people are crying hoarse that unless Debt limit of USA is enhanced from the current !4.3 Tr $, the Government will come to stand still and no money payment could be effected by it. Dollar will surely fall and USA will be heckled when it cannot do any payment. But the Majority politicians in Congress are unmoved. Unless President agrees not to increase taxes on rich persons and reduce help to needy (Americans) no debt enhancement will be approved by the Republican Congress. Is it the way the States should function? How can the common people be benefited with such behaviour of their representatives? Recent issue of 'The Economist' has clearly stated that current economic conditions in USA are not improving because of pigheadedness of its politicians. Please also note that the candidates for Congress are democratically (voted by the Party voters) chosen by the political parties in USA. The result is hardly any different than anywhere else where they are nominated by the Party. Don't you see it.sir? No difference in resulting Administration of the Nation is apparent in this Democratically selected Party candidates,isn't it? A news about which we are not normally aware is that in the richest country in the World, USA has currently 44 million people needing Government help with food stamps. Some i.e. 14% of them are having their income exceeding poverty line one. Since food items have more inflation, these people do need the help from the Government. They get food coupons (called food stamps in USA) for exchanging them with food items at pantries. The population of USA is around 300 million.
What is happening in UK, the basic Democracy cradle, as far as Asia is concerned? Labour and Conservative plus Democratic parties are fighting to put down the other, isn't it? What is happening to UK or the people therein? Are they getting happier? No politician appears to be concerned, isn't it? The recent exposure of the horrid case of 'News of The World' owned by Shri Rupert Murdoch in UK is serious example of Democracy in functioning in UK, isn't it? What happened there in just last week? Riots and looting was resorted to by people who were poor and destitute. British economy is supposed to be the best in the Europe.
Just see any country having Democracy. You will find there are minimum two divisions among people and are continuously fighting for power (for themselves), isn't it? How can Democracy really give any comfort or happiness to people or any prestige to the country? In Democracy, the Government always becomes arrogant and cannot consider all people as their own. Only recently one of Bhaarateey Ministers has declared, that they function for the good of (only) majority (and not all people). Is this the responsibility of the Democratically elected Government? The Rulers will try by hook or crook to get reelected in next election and nothing else. That is the problem.
Merely blaming and crying against the leaders and/or the criminals damaging the community fabric in our country will in no way help to repair the damage. This is likely to darken our own minds and may give in to pessimism. There is no time for rise of pessimism in us at this critical time. So we should stop doing this.
Actually, as Dr Ferguson, a historian in Harvard Institutes states in his book "Civilization: The West and The Rest", the West has patented six applications (of Statecraft) since last 600 years and has offered them to the Rest. The Rest have started accepting them since last 100 years starting with Japan as the first. USA, as we see, currently is in its downhill journey and none can expect it to come up in near future. Japan has also (apparently due to Natural disasters enhanced by the nuclear plant fall out) going the same way. Please note that the author gives the applications an adjective 'killer'. One of them is 'Competition'. Don't you think Democracy is only Political 'Avtaar' of Competition?
Maharshi Mahesh Yogee has pointed out inadequacy of democratic Administration in his book Celebrating Perfection in Administration (pages 324-325) in following words, 'It is enough to satisfy Democratic system that decisions are made by a majority, and whateverthe majority has decidedshould be law. Any opposition to lawis a crime, a punishable offence. Is it rifght for the political intelligentsia of India to bear with this worthless,'anti-order' system of administration?' He has special attention to Bhaarat. He says (on pages 329-330), '-- India is a special country-----it is Veda Bhumi; the Light of Veda, pure knowledge, is embedded in evey grain of Indian soil; it is Deva Bhumi; the light of total knowledge and its infinite organizing power is the life and breathof the nation; it is Purna Bhumi; the land of perfection-----immortal, eternal; it is Bharat (Pratibha-Rat)----it is saturated withdignity and glory. Immortality upholds India; eternity maintains India; perfection sustains India.-----The emphasis here is that India wuith its very special features, India with its very special culture, cannot be gracefully administered in the same way as any other part of the world, and because India is essentially Vedic, there has to be a Vedic Administration for India; any other administration will simply be inadequate.'
In the world, especially the West, knows no Statecraft experience except under (Cruel) dictators or kings. Possibly, that is why they consider Democracy as better and hence ideal one. In fact what the State or Rulers must do is not known to them. In Shantiparv of Mahaabhaarat, Pitaamah Bheeshm from his deathbed of arrows explains the details to Dharmraaj. The Ruler has to ensure that every citizen of his, must have basic needs of his (Rotee, Kapadaa and Makaan) fulfilled satisfactorily and any likely obstacles in his path he undertakes to place himself in the natural path of Development to Godhead are removed. Nothing else. Are our leaders (in Democracy) following this advice? Nobody in the world appears to be doing so, isn't it?
Any way, my feeling currently is that we must (first) have unity of Bhaarateey people, may they be Hindus, Muslims or Christians. You must have seen the Muslims as well as Christians backing Baba Ramdevjee in his movement. People following Bhaarateey culture will surely follow it. The fact is that Bhaarateey Muslims as well as Bhaarateey Christians are different than their foreign faith-brothers. Shri Francois Gautier has underlined the fact in his article "Hindu Rate of Wrath" attached for your ready reference. Of course to make it cent percent factual, we have to put in our efforts towards that end. Even many few Bhaarateey people (I mean not converted to Islam or Christianity) so-called Westernized, intellectuals, pseudo-secularists and Marxists also need their mental attitude to be reclaimed. I had written an article "A Vedic Response to Terrorism" a couple of years back (remember to have sent it to you also) indicating the method that we need to apply towards that end. A modified version entitled "Invincible Defence Technology" has been published in last month in Indian Defence Consultants e-journal.I (including my co-author Dr Leffler of USA) do feel that something positive will surely come out of this effort. Concerned people in Defence must pay attention to the method suggested therein to reduce external danger to Bhaarat. All of us need to put our hands in support, however, to make all Bhaarateey united. No internal danger will be there.
Be free from the yoke of Western culture and embrace our glorious Bhaarateey one without further delay. Victory is of us.
I am enclosing my articles "Nation & Development" as well as "Development, What, How & Why" along with. The second one has been published in recent issues of 'Tattv-Darshan' a quarterly being published in Bangalore. I have suggested the way/s by which our leaders (it may do to have our bureaucrats only Developed)can get Developed. Similarly to acquaint with other 'killer' applications offered by the West (and accepted by the Rest including Bhaarat) referred to above, kindly refer to my article "Applications Offered by The West" based on the information I could collect about the book of Prof Ferguson as mentioned above. This has already been sent to you last month.
Unless we do away with the (present ) System of State Administration, there is not likely to be any respite from scams all over the world. Since Bhaarat has experience with better Administrations (since ancient times till about 300 years ago) we do have more serious ones. Please also note that till end of Seventeenth Century, GDP of Bhaarat was about 25% of the worlds GDP when British in the garb of traders came and nearly destroyed the productive professions here. They collected raw materials from here and supplied us final (usable) products. Our GDP went on sliding down. By 1990 it had become insignificant, I think. That of the whole Western Europe started rising (it was even below 18% at 1700 AD) though at slower rate since then. That time (along with Britain) all West European countries were invading Australasian and African countries (which were peaceful and happy themselves) for establishing overseas colonies for exploitation. This has been indicated in the book of Prof Ferguson mentioned above. This we can call first scam perpetrated by British on Bhaarat, don't you agree sir?
As soon as USA will determine to follow Bhaarateey culture, I am sure that rapid positive changes will be appearing therein also.
I shall be happy if you can circulate this in your circle/s and let me have your feed back concerning the articles attached as well.
With regards to all,
--------Mukund ApteDemocracy is Best BUT Most Parties are Undemocratic Led By Dullards
Dear Jaykaran & Sarbjit,
Before 2009 General Elections I wanted Cream of retired Defense Officers, Professionals and Civil Servants to form 'Democratic Party of India'. In this exercise I found – it is impossible to join most political parties, you are not invited to even participate in general party meetings to deliberate political or economic situation.
Conduct of our political parties is Corrupt. For example Nitish Kumar of JDU who failed in Engineering Exams twice and was given a certificate o passing but not allowed to practice engineering has So much authority within party---.
ARTICLE XX
National Executive
1. The National Executive shall consist of the President and seventy four members elected by the National Council, as per rules prescribed by the National Executive. The President shall appoint three Vice Presidents, a Treasurer, a Secretary-General, and not more than ten General Secretaries from amongst the members of the National Executive. He may also appoint not more than ten
Secretaries.
It will shock you to discover parties like JDU led by Nitish Kumar who headed India's largest organization Indian Railways and lead third most populated state Bihar can't even copy most important paragraph correctly. Comparison of Para INC 2 and JDU 2 have following missing line which is crucial.
"--- he shall be declared elected as President. If no candidate secures more than 50 per cent of the first preferences,---"
JDU constitution was submitted/printed in Maech2001. A totalitarian cum authoritarian party he leads didn't know the important mistake in eight years.
How can people like promise to eradicate corruption and "Nominate" capable people when they have such poor caliber?
xxxxxxxxxxx
INC 1. As soon as may be after the receipt of the ballot-boxes, the Returning Officer shall count the votes of the first preferences recorded for each candidate.
JDU 1. Presiding Officers shall forward the ballot boxes to the Returning Officer. After the receipt of all the ballot boxes, the Returning Officer shall count the votes of the first preference recorded for each candidate.
INC 2. If a candidate secures more than 50 per cent of the votes of the first preferences, he shall be declared elected as President. If no candidate secures more than 50 per cent of the first preferences, candidate who has secured the smallest number of the first preferences shall be eliminated,
JDU 2. If a candidate secures more than 50% of the first preferences the candidate who has secured the smallest number of first preferences shall be eliminated,
INC 3. and the second preferences recorded by the voters who gave him the first preferences shall be taken into account in counting the votes of the remaining candidates.
JDU 3. and the second preference, recorded by the voter who gave him the first preference, shall be taken into account, in counting the votes of the remaining candidates.
INC 4. In this counting the candidate who secures the smallest number of votes shall be eliminated.
JDU 4. In this counting, the candidates who secure the smallest number of votes shall be eliminated.
INC 5. By this process of eliminating the candidates who secure the smallest number of votes in subsequent countings after the transfer of votes according to recorded preferences, the candidate who secures more than 50 per cent of the votes, shall be declared elected as President.
JDU 5. By this process of elimination of the candidates who secure the smallest number of votes in subsequent counting, after the transfer of votes according to recorded preferences, the candidate who secures more than 50% of the votes shall be declared as President;
INC
Article XVIII
ELECTION OF THE PRESIDENT
(g) As soon as may be after the receipt of the ballot-boxes, the Returning Officer
shall count the votes of the first preferences recorded for each candidate. If a
candidate secures more than 50 per cent of the votes of the first preferences, he shall be declared elected as President. If no candidate secures more than 50 per cent of the first preferences, candidate who has secured the smallest number of the first preferences shall be eliminated, and the second preferences recorded by the voters who gave him the first preferences shall be taken into account in counting the votes of the remaining candidates. In this counting the candidate who secures the smallest number of votes shall be eliminated. By this process of eliminating the candidates who secure the smallest number of votes in subsequent countings after the transfer of votes according to recorded preferences, the candidate who secures more than 50 per cent of the votes, shall be declared elected as President.
JDU
ARTICLE XIX
Election of the President
5. Presiding Officers shall forward the ballot boxes to the Returning Officer. After the receipt of all the ballot boxes, the Returning Officer shall count the votes of the first preference recorded for each candidate. If a candidate secures more than 50% of the first preferences the candidate who has secured the smallest
number of first preferences shall be eliminated, and the second preference, recorded by the voter who gave him the first preference, shall be taken into account, in counting the votes of the remaining candidates. In this counting, the candidates who secure the smallest number of votes shall be eliminated. By this
process of elimination of the candidates who secure the smallest number of votes in subsequent counting, after the transfer of votes according to recorded preferences, the candidate who secures more than 50% of the votes shall be declared as President;
xxxxxxxxxxx
Ravinder Singh
September1, 2011
IJ's Message >>>
Sarbajit,
I feel the villain of all these happenings is our "political system," viz, party type democracy. (You know in Tamil Nadu alone, there are 54 parties !) The curent system keeps the intellectuals away from politics. Actually, the intellectuals shun to fight the elections and the political party bosses will not nominate them for elections..
Let's have the highly competent Indians above the age of 55 at the helm of affairs and they need to serve only one Lok Sabha terms and thereafter retire. We need to identify such personalities and compel them to stand for elections. The election system will have to be modified and the candidates concenned are not to invest any money. Only four or five candidaes per constituency will be selected by a Citizens' council to stand for elections. The govenment should do the publicity for them. The cost of election to a candidate will be next to nil and money will play no part in the Indian elections at all. In this system, all and sundry cannot stand for elections but only those nominated by theCitizens council which will consist of Indians with competence and several achievements to their credit. Let the system not depend on partywise numbers but in numbers based on truth, conscience and the best interest of the nation. The criminals and vagabonds and incompetent persons will never step into the Lok Sabha by this approach.
Israel Jayakaran, Colonel (Retd) Signals, Chennai, India.
--
With regards to all,
------Mukund Apte
--
With regards to all,
------Mukund Apte
--
With regards to all,
------Mukund Apte
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