Saturday, September 21, 2013

Re: [IAC#RG] Why is entire ESM community calling you names?

Dear TTK ji,

1) Your hypothesis on alcohol as an essential component of warlike attirbutes falls flat on its face in view of the requirements on NIL-alcohol at work as specified in technical arms of the Armed Forces like Indian Navy and Indian Air Force as well as many parts of the Indian Army. 

2) Specifically in context with serving Sappers and other technical arms of the Indian Army which are too many to name here but include Signals, AAC, and others handling technical equipment, the rules on NIL-alcohol are there and listed too. I am sure you are aware.

3) Now we come to ex-Armed Forces/veterans-what is the need for warlike attributes from retired people, who are supposed to be giving back to society rather than taking away? 

For the rest, I am doing what I have to do, with all segments of governance. You may wish to seek it out, here is an example, search Veeresh Malik vs Indian Olympics Association for definition of "Public Authority".

And one more point - the reason I am pursuing the issue of cheap booze for ex-servicemen is on the request of the wives and widows of some ex-servicement, so please consider that before your next response.

I, too, know how to keep my powder dry and am waiting for more responses like yours before I release, slowly slowly.

best regards and stay sober, first thing I learnt when i joined shipping was "never drink free-fund ka booze".


On 21 September 2013 19:46, tadepalli triambakakishore <> wrote:
Mr Veeresh Malik,
What's your grouse. It is not I am sure your intention to pontificate on how the GOI spends revenue.
When you can answer the justification by the powers to be ( GOI guided by Babus & intellectuals/ aam admis by their silence) to deny the Veteran Warriors , Veernaris their just entitlements by  cunning stratagems , you can wax eloquent of  tiny expenditure on liquor as Medical Comforts( that too on payment) to Serving and VeteranWarrors. Your self indulgent attitude of ENLIGHTENING Faujis of ' Bad' effects of Alcohol is thoroughly unsolicited and misplaced.
Instead of resorting to quixotic charging at imaginary devils( windmills) you may like to invest your logical thought and energies in 
seeking and getting welfare to the wretched who don't even know their entitlement to basic amenities ( hygiene, sanitation, safe drinking water and safe food, health etc) and you are aware where the allocated  budget goes.
As regards your penchant to spread teetotal attitude or vegetarianism , don't you think it's best left to individual tastes.
Warriors ( with a few exceptions) consume food and liquids which raise their , ' RAJO GUN' and make them WARLIKE. We Warriors take pride in having drinks with Responsibility.
We Warriors  like liquor  as it is War- like, whether it is hot or cold and so why try to wean us off by your ideas of addiction/ state subjugation .
You should not try to make a dove out of a Hawk nor a vegetarian out of a Lion.
Give us a break and let your interactions with us, the Warriors be socially relevant. Some socially relevant topics could be good governance and ways to extend succor to needy and of course to educate Aam Aadmi to choose the political executives wisely.
Such a socially relevant cerebral activity , I am sure is not a tall order.

Veteran TTK, a Bombay Sapper.

On Wednesday, September 18, 2013, Veeresh Malik wrote:

#What is the justification in providing duty-free tax-free alcohol to ex-Armed Forces personnel?
#What is the justification in providing duty-free tax-free alcohol to Armed Forces personnel in peace stations?
#What is the justification in providing duty-free tax-free alcohol to Armed Forces personnel handling sensitive and expensive equipment?
#What is the justification in providing duty-free tax-free alcohol to Armed Forces personnel in mixed gender situations?

The answer is simple - keep them alcohol addicted, so that they remain subjugated, and do not question the realities of modern democracy.

As far as working in extremely cold conditions is concerned, merchant ships now transit the Arctic, on their passages and guess what - alcohol is not permitted onboard. Merchant seafarers work in much harsher and colder conditions, and nil-alcohol on board just makes things better.

The false contention that alcohol is good for working in cold weather needs to be substantiated with facts. 

On 18 September 2013 00:44, Jk Chaudhry <> wrote:
I am not ex army.
Army man,gives more Blood, than the 
Water he receives in return as wages,emoluments,fringe benefits.

True incident,of COAS,asking for 6 months to introduce prohibition in pursuit of policy of GOI.
4 months latter took 12 MPs of parliamentary consultative committee ,on tour of J and K,in summer,including  visit to Ladakh.. Kept there for ten days ,due to inclement weather,providing them with 12 Khadi blankets each,the raging Khadi wave. Each night our patrons found severe cold unbearable,till a bit of RUM was swallowed as medicine.
As they flew back,they were asked, " To which head of account,shall we debit the  12 bottles of rum used to keep them warm"?
Soldier to face
In a 
Trench,or bunker.
No talk of prohibition to be forced in army after that.
Former D.G. r.H.S

Sent from my iPad

On 16-Sep-2013, at 2:19 AM, Rakshpal Abrol <> wrote:

Dear Sir,
Why the business community and farmers are not provided such privilages. 
I know that even people who had constucted bridges and canals for general public have not yet been honoured.
I know most of them were tee totalars.They were honest people.

Warm regards,
Rakshpal Abrol
Consumer Activist

From: Hirak Nag <>
To: "" <>
Cc: "" <>
Sent: Sunday, 15 September 2013 12:05 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Why is entire ESM community calling you names?

Dear Veterans and educated Indians,
                                                  I would rather not answer unfounded arguments about privileges extended to the Armed Forces. They are generally illogical and a waste of time for a reply.
Veteran, Hirak Nag.

From: arun joshi <>
To: "" <>
Sent: Wednesday, 4 September 2013 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] Why is entire ESM community calling you names?

Dear Mr Malik,
You are logical in your arguments.
Conditions of Service and certain assurances in the form of acknowledgments for service rendered are prevalent in each of our service be it Armed Forces or Civil services.
One could first begin with the "pension" which should be stopped the moment a Govt servant (applicable to Armed Forces & civil services) becomes a foreign citizen. As a corollary the "ack" or privileges peculiar to each service should also cease. 
Leading by example it should start with the IAS the most privileged and molly coddled service and then trickle down to the other services.
I would also like to add here that if any Govt servant is drawing a pension from any source other than The GOI, it should cease forthwith. Be assured the IAS will never permit that to happen. A tenure of 3 years plus in the UN pushing files gets you a pension of $ 1000 tax free. At the present rate Rs 62000/- (tax free). One of our Commissioner (no names) did not push a single file for 2 years rendering my city to garbage , ensured a UN posting for disservice to my city and is drawing double pension. The IAS and UN. During morning walks I always salute him.
I am an Armed Forces veteran and am in full agreement with your observation about foreign Nationals. Please make it applicable to all Govt servants and also those receiving pension from foreign sources.
With Regards

On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 1:09 AM, tadepalli triambakakishore <> wrote:
Dear Mr Veeresh Malik,
There seems to be a compulsion to question benefits given to Warriors and their families ( serving and ESM). At the same time 
there is a mention of close kin including own mother being recipient of Armed Forces '  benefits/ privileges   Viz.,
Liquor/ reservation for wards of uniformed personnel in education institutions/ pension/ CSD etc.
If pension is a deferred wage , where is the question of reneging by a civilzed nation to keep the promise UNLESS the person has forfeited the privilege by some misdemeanor and actions against national interests.
Further Warriorship being a Rajas ( ref Tamas, Satvik and Rajo Gunas or Traits) most warriors are wont to take food and items like liquor of Rajas type. Exceptions will always be there where some Warriors are teetotallers and vegetarians . Why sermonise or insist one' s Way of life on an unsuspecting section of society under the garb of protecting tax payers money. It is customary not to grudge the specific privileges extended by a civilized community to specific sections of its society ( MPs, MLAs, Rly men, Men of Telephones , Airlines and so on) .There is no need to rave/ rant at the special privileges .
Further ,it is as improper as questioning the privileged seat or treatment given to elders in the family . The one who questions is prone to suffer ( Like Sisupal in Rajasuya Yagna in Mahabharata when he condemns the participants decision to honor Sri Krsna as lunatic behavior of elders owing to their age related mental atrophy).
May good sense prevail and this running down of Warriors cease forthwith. Incidentally Warriors are also tax payers.
Veteran TTK

On Thursday, August 29, 2013, Veeresh Malik wrote:
Dear Ashok Coomar,

Thank you for writing in, and I must salute your tone of language, far different from the tone used by Shri Pannu.

Now, on contents and some facts:-

1) My mother takes a pension from the Indian Army thanks to my late father, my late maternal grandmother took an award for all 4 sons in the Armed Forces (though only 3 continued, the first had to take a civil job to bring up the zero restart family after '47)

2) I have a list as long as your arm of family members from the close circle of relatives as well as close friends who have been in the Armed Forces and are in the Armed Forces and some have also made the Supreme Sacrifice and so get slightly outraged when people choose to question my patriotism.

3) Not having been in the Armed Forces myself but from an institution which produced the earliest Chiefs of Staff of the Indian Navt as well as other Star Officers for the Indian Army, so connections of not just the Indian Navy, my own training went through the full drill on Armed Forces pattern, and more, including swearing loyalty to flag and country.

My single point question here to you is this - if after retiring, a person from the Indian Armed Forces or Civilian Government services voluntarily exits from Indian citizenship and swears loyalty as well as fealty to another country, then what right does he have to the benefits of the Army Act or similar, whether ex Armed Forces or Civilian?

Would we justify the benefits if, hypothetical situation, the Supreme Commander in Chief, the President of India did something like this?

Please do not try to churn the issue up into other unrelated issues of loyalty, patriotism, and need of the Nation and the hour. I am not a fool to not know the importance of a strong Armed Forces. If it is your contention that strong Armed Forces can not exist without booze, then I have nothing more to say. However, if that was not your contention, then:-

4) As far as duty free booze is concerned, tots of rum could have been justified in gunpowder days, which is what we also were taught, but in this day and age, when Armed Forces personnel are expected to be tech savvy as well as in charge of equipment costing billions? On an ordinary cargo tanker carrying crude oil, a clear window of no booze for 15 days prior is now SOP. A railway engine driver, merchant navy sailor, civil aircraft pilot, truck operator, lab technician, surgeon, teacher, everybody else is supposed to be cold sober nil alcohol. But our Armed Forces expect to get cheap booze? 

5) Given half a chance, the dispensation towards no booze needs to be instilled into people joining the Armed Forces from the date of induction, just as it is done in other professions requiring some amount of responsibility. Maybe it is a good idea to put this in the curriculum of the training establishments for the Armed Forces, as is done with responsible Armed Forces, increasingly, worldwide?

Deflecting any rational arguments into vague retorts about being anti-National would make anybody else an easy target, but not me, Coomar, or Pannu - I got far too many family members and friends who have died in the Service of the Nation for you and your ilk to get patronising, condescending and supercilious with me. In addition, I have pursued one too many compensation claim for families of such people where people in service have put obstacles, to not know the truth.

Have a nice day, try and remain sober, and set a good example to the youngsters joining the forces. Calling me names just makes me more keen to do a follow-up article.

Warm regards/Veeresh Malik


On 28 August 2013 19:43, Maj Gen Ashok Coomar <> wrote:
Dear Mr Malik,
It is indeed unfortunate that we have such ignorant citizens in this country who will neither see nor listen to reason. They continue their lament without pausing to analyse whether one should excise the head because of a headache.
There is no alternative to an army to defend the nation. You may be right that there are aberrations but the nation has no option but to take the delinquents to ask rather than spite the entire armed forces as you seem to suggest. 
In national interest it is imperative that our countrymen are careful not to run down the entire institution of the armed forces lest it may compels them to follow the lead given by others - forget about the responsibility you are charged with, just line your nest! 
Perhaps you can imagine the consequences if that happens.
If you do then please refrain from plying your lonely furrow.
I pray to God to bestow some patriotic wisdom on you,
Yours sincerely,
Ashok Coomar      
-------Original Message-------
Date: 8/27/2013 11:55:40 PM
Subject: Re: [IAC#RG] PIL dismissed. subsidised alcohol to Defence remains.
Dear Air Commodre (Retd) T Pannu and others in this list.

Ignoring the silly language used by Air Comm Pannu on calling me a "traitor", for which I could easily choose to file a case under the IT Act if I wanted to, which said language does no justice to the rank he claims to hold, let me place a few simple facts on record:-

1) The Army Act and its specific requirement of "citizen of India" (exception - Nepali) is paramount. It supercedes any GOI letter. Aliens, foreigners (which is what people voluntarily become when they renounce Indian citizenship to pledge loyalty and fealty to another country) are not covered under the said Act and its applications to other Services. A similar situation exists with civilian pensioners too. Please wait for the announcement on pensions wrt aliens/foreigners, which to some extent is already in place in practice for ECHS/MI Room benefits. Rank or otherwise, what right do foreigners and aliens even if they were in the Indian Armed Forces at one time, have to enter restricted areas which includes Armed Forces Hospitals, Installations, Offices, Air Force St


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Col Arun Joshi(Veteran)

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