From: rti_india@yahoogrou
Sent: Thursday, June 10, 2010 3:20 PM
To: rti_india@yahoogrou
Subject: [rti_india] Re: Molestation/
Dear Sharmaji
1) Standards are going down everywhere we look, not only those on this group. If you know of any better quality people who ought to be members please ask them to join.
2) Why should we blame our members for the quality of discourse ?
Vast majority of them are ordinary citizens who are deeply disturbed by state of the nation, and the all round apathy and corruption. They feel helpless not knowing what do do. For them RTI appears as a shining beacon of truth in the dark cesspool that is India. They do not have the benefit of the rich experience and maturity seniors like yourself have absorbed, to discriminate between limp lollipops and AK-47s.
3) On my part, I am equally concerned that seniors members like yourself with vast practical experience in governance and its methods have completely abdicated responsibility to this group other than by occasionally contributing a few posts which are in the nature of personal attacks.
Sarbajit
--- In rti_india@yahoogrou
>
> Dear Sarbjit
>
> I ask you to reply on declining standards of this group.
>
> As an oldest member of the forum I lodge my strong protest against
> the quality of people who are being allowed into RTI-India group.
>
> Please see to it that all these sadakchaap NGO traitors are expeled.
> from group forthwith. Simply expeling 1 Dr Nuutan Thakur is not enough,
> you must expel each member who aids her and also expose the
> entire NGO racket which now extends much beyond RTI
>
> S D Sharma
>
> --- In rti_india@yahoogrou
> >
> > Well, I have two questions one for captainjohan and another for Mr Khan.
> >
> > For captainjohan,
> >
> > Pls look at the last week's story of Rape in TOI.
> >
> >
> http://timesofindia
> >
> > After a reading of the story, do u feel it is a Rape Case? The basic
> definition of rape is that there should be a sexual intercourse against the
> WILL of the girl. But in this story, the girl was having an affair with her
> tutor, which her parents did not know/approve and moreover the girl never
> even complained. She was happily enjoying her affair with her teacher. And
> when her parents found that their daughter is having an affair, they filed a
> false Rape case so that the teacher is out of sight from the girl. We have
> some privy information to this case and u would be shocked to find the
> actual victim's/girl'
> >
> > This question is for Mr Khan.
> >
> > Pls go the below TOI story on a Rape.
> >
> > http://timesofindia
> >
> > What punishment do u suggest for this women. Should be given a Bharat
> Ratna for filing a False Rape Case and doing a social service or should be
> stoned to death.
> >
> > In fact I agree to Mr Khan's suggetion. If such women filing false Rape
> Cases (In 74% cases as per the police report itself) are stoned to death,
> Rape stories would simply vanish from the media as they actually do NOT even
> exist.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In rti_india@yahoogrou
> > >
> > > Well, we all know that the majority of Rape Cases (Three out of every
> Four) are actually FALSE (consensual sex etc) and are actually filed to earn
> Rs 200000/- free Govt Money (as per the Latest rules) given to the so called
> victims for filing a False Rape Case as till date there is NO punsihment for
> filing a False Rape Case.
> > >
> > > In fact a Pune Police Report States that
> > >
> > > 74% rape cases lodged since 2008 were actually consensual sex based on
> marriage promises that were broken later, says police internal report
> > >
> > >
> http://www.punemirr
> > >
> > > SC has also ruled that consensual sex is NOT rape.
> > >
> > > http://www.hindu.
> > >
> > > So when MHA invited comments and tried to change Rape laws vide
> > >
> > >
> http://mha.nic.
> > >
> > > Lots of NGOs started writing back on the same. TOI also published the
> news.
> > >
> > > ==========
> > >
> > > Reactions from men have ranged from apprehensions that such a law could
> be used to extort money, to outright panic that the doors would be thrown
> open for false cases that destroy a person's reputation. Rajesh Kumar, a
> Delhi-based lawyer and "men's rights activist", posted a copy of the bill
> for discussion on the internet and said it had elements which made it
> "patently anti-men". Kumar worried that the nuances of the law could be used
> to file false cases against men even if a sexual relationship was
> consensual. He also said that the law was gender discriminatory as it
> recognized only sexual assault of women by men and not the other way around.
>
> > >
> > >
> http://timesofindia
> > >
> > > ============
> > >
> > > And yes, u guessed it right. RTIs have been filed so that the new Rape
> Law promoting False Cases by giving 200000 to the so called victims goes
> nowhere.
> > >
> > > --- In rti_india@yahoogrou
> > > >
> > > > Dear Dr.Thakur,
> > > > The case in question is under investigation but as you rightly said
> the attitude of some MCPs can be sickening.But then the real cause is also
> is false accusations by some women and jumping in by some Human rights
> activists. Like the case of World economic forum pointed out by THiruvendra
> is a honey trap set by South african mafia for the judge. But what was the
> need for Mrs.Advani who was chairman of Women's welfare airdashing to Mumbai
> to investigate the case and supporting the woman. Recently is the case of an
> airhostess of Jet airways who was living in with a copilot for nearly 3
> years and suddenly accusing him of rape because that guy refused to marry
> her.He can be accused of cheating but then calling it rape by all national
> dailies makes mockery of rape charge.
> > > > Now coming back to Ruchika case and molestation.
> privy to information, I am almost certain this is a case of rape but
> "molestation" charge was framed by the parents of the girl to save her
> virginity for the sake of marriage.This is a common phenomenon in India
> where parents of girls who are minor try to save her virginity for future
> marriage after rape. I think this IS THE BIGGEST SOCIAL EVIL AND THIS FEAR
> ABOUT LOSING VIRGINITY IS WHAT ALL SOCIAL ACTIVISTS LIKE YOU SHOULD ADDRESS.
> It is this VIRGINITY FEAR which has made Indian law Ministry to draft the
> new Rape law where "molestation' is punishable upto 8 years, while attempt
> to rape wherein penetration doesnot happen is punishable only by 2
> years!!!!!!!
> > > >
> > > > --- In rti_india@yahoogrou
> > > > >
> > > > > Madam,
> > > > > Â
> > > > > As such I agree with you competely, But I would like to remind you
> case of World Economic Forum meeting in Mumbai sometimes in year 2003-2005,
> and arrest of Chief Justice Mr Desai of an African Country (Which I couldÂ
> not recall now) on false allegation of rape.
> > > > > Â
> > > > > The coin has always two sides.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > TrivendraÂ
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- On Sun, 6/6/10, Nutan Thakur <nutanthakurlko@> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > From: Nutan Thakur <nutanthakurlko@>
> > > > > Subject: [rti_india] Molestation
> > > > > To: rti_india@yahoogrou
> > > > > Date: Sunday, 6 June, 2010, 9:20 AM
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Â
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Friends,
> > > > > I present a live case before u. It started with my putting forth a
> small statement- ""A Lt General accused of molesting a Colonel's wife is
> thrown out of Army. Ye kya ho raha hai?" on the social networking site
> Facebook. To this there were different answers but the one that really
> stunned me was from a friend w...hose view was that- " No man can molest a
> woman , and that too a married woman of force ... NEVER , without her
> willing consent". He also says that - "I have always observed ... that this
> type of stupid behaviour is common in love affairs".
> > > > > It is this statement by an otherwise learned and sober person that I
> want to present before you all for discussion and opinion making. To me the
> person who made the statement is not important, nor is my idea to criticize
> him or to dissect his background. To me what really matters is the fact that
> even today, in the 21st Century, there is a male perception that goes on to
> say that molestation of a woman (particularly a married woman) is not
> possible (without her consent). If slightly extended this statement comes to
> mean that molestation, rape and such other lurid and heinous crimes against
> women are simply not possible as long as the women are not a party to it.
> Frankly I not only completely disagree with this statement but also find it
> absolutely sickening. And also terrifying. Terrifying because it is this
> kind of male mind-set that is responsible for many heinous and dangerous
> crimes against women go completely unheard and unpunished. What this
> > > > > gentleman is saying might as well be the mental thought process of
> the Judge or the Magistrate who has been given the responsibility of
> delivering Justice. And if the person has already made a presumption that
> there can't be a crime of this nature against a woman (more so in the case
> of married women), then one can understand what kind of justice is the woman
> going to get from the concerned court.
> > > > > We have seen the dramatic version of these situations in the
> celebrated film "Damini" where "Taarikh pe taarikh" could not give justice
> to the raped woman till the very end. We also know of such widely discussed
> cases on rape like the Mathura rape case and Bhanwari Devi case where victim
> had to pass through such insulting times even in the law courts that it led
> to great revolt and resistance by the women activists from all over India.
> But it seems that no change of law and regulations on Rape has been able to
> actually change the deep-rooted antipathy of this kind of people for whom
> women are nothing more than a plaything.
> > > > > If what these people say is true then what is the need of any law on
> Rape? Why have different sections on women abuse and molestation? I am not
> commenting at all on the case related with the Lt Genera in the Army where
> he lost his job due to the allegations made by a Colonel's wife. Each case
> is different and must be treated so. I also don't say that women don't feign
> wrong abuse. In my husband Amitabh ji's policing career, I have myself come
> across such cases where it was clear that the woman is making false
> accusations. I remember a case in Gagaha police station in Gorakhpur, when
> my husband was very new in the service and after a raid that he had
> conducted, the woman whom they had arrested with weapons had made written
> accusations of rape against 10-12 police officers, except luckily my
> husband. The matter got exposed within a day or two but it had given my
> husband a lot of mental harassment.
> > > > > But then to sweepingly generalize such a statement is really too
> much. In my opinion it shows the poor mental outlook and extremely biased
> world view of many of the male folk. It also gives the reason why still
> justice is being denied to one half of the human population in such a large
> measure.
> > > > > I as a social activist and a gender-rights activist not only
> strongly condemn such wrongly-placed mental outlook but also consider them
> extremely dangerous for the proper development and functioning of human
> society in a just manner. I know that such a statement by an individual is
> not really important, what actually counts is the overall gender perception.
> And this statement somehow seems to represent the same distorted gender
> perception
> > > > >
> > > > > Dr Nutan Thakur,
> > > > > Secretary,
> > > > > IRDS,
> > > > > Lucknow
> > > > > # 94155-34525
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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