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Dear Cmdre,congratulations for going beyond the schedules of chotta pegs and golfcourse. It is inspiring to see channelisation of positive energy to India's transition to democracy from a colony and it will take ages to transform the colonial mindsets.The perception of "intrusions" or "crosspostings" emanates from colonial hangovers or else it should not be seen as infringement of personal property rights.Benjamin disraeli had said "Colonies do not cease to be colonies because they are independent".As long as things are debated in the larger interest of the society and the state,everyone should be welcome.Democracy and its attendant institutions are not the sole prerogative of state functionaries and elected representatives or some google group moderators but each and every citizen of India is the focal point of this democracy.citizen is the focal point of a constitutional democracy governed by rule of law, the citizen or the ex-serviceman for that reason is not mere subject of state in democracy but holder of rights and bearer of obligations and jointly responsible for the smooth running of the state and society. Democracy is not delievered by state institutions and its functionaries but by the citizens, who mandated constitutional democracy and have every right to question and express to the people in position of power, mandated by him to discharge the official functions.The FAX in question has raised very pertinent issue on the functioning and role of people in it.
It is inspiring development that people from uniforms services have began to become part of the journey dedicated to transition of this colony to a true democracy.'threat of deleting the email addresses is attendant to the highest intellectual complexes emanating from "I am there" mentality and not a healthy sign for groups dedicated to democratization. Any way, every one has contributed something and deserves healthy thanks.Aridaman Jit Singh--On Wed, Aug 3, 2011 at 7:49 PM, Sainiksangh <gs@sainiksangh.org> wrote:
Sainiksangh has no inclination for getting into arguments on a reflexive response to a matter which otherwise would seize concern of any with slightest sense of military self esteem let alone national pride. Admittedly golf courses are poor nurseries for cultivating such values, indeed just the opposite. Lessons on how to conduct and what is self esteem for veterans therefore coming from those in glass houses with apparent penchant for knee jerk outburst, itself intriguing, can have little intellectual honesty. Such lessons must be drawn from rank and file not club wielding self styled 'patriarchs'. Unsurprisingly the Commodore skips and evades the central message in our FAX apparently loves his bookkeeping tastes by recourse to references to bureaucratic functioning. We are not an office but a citizen's setup conscious of our obligations, the issues in FAX being beyond the perfunctory. Its mismanagement as made public by the government itself, raising more distrust than faith in it, can only be warranting a strong rejoinder unless we are a lame duck and sick nation which is we are not hopefully. Let it be clear that the government is fully accountable to the people and not to Crown of England any more or be it White House today! The Commodore's critique is therefore a self inflicting averment, an insidious distraction from culpability of a serious nature of which author makes no mention. Instead missing the wood for trees through unsure and motivated judgment interpreting the FAX as brief for the Army Chief as an individual when it is not. But decidedly for overriding need to cleanse the mess at higher ranks a mission at his hand which as far as possible must not see change of horses midstream through a controversy of this nature by design. Commodore's silence on this tantamount to condoning and defending wrong is a reflection of flippant inconsistency in his sermons , incompatible with military straightforwardness. He seems carry the tone of an official spokesman for the 'other' camp whatever this may mean!
Sainiksangh is not an archaic set up with colonial mindset which the author seems to exhibit richly in his rejoinder ( not his fault we groom functionaries in our still colonial styled military establishments trying to brush up English NOT grooming leaders as why should white masters should have to groom brown leaders anyway , but this continues to this day vigorously as we carry the nostalgia of Raj and its admirers ). Our next paper to the RM is exactly for nationalizing our training philosophy at foundation level and bring quality in intake else we remain saddled with vagaries of character carried by sub calibre material in a profession where only honour and awe must prevail; admittedly Hindu bourgeoisie never had a military culture to assimilate such values as history bears out amply ; why history is not taught. The founding principles of Sainiksangh therefore encompass nation building engagement, defining a citizen role for the veteran where he is remains an extension of the military institution outside the establishment when he chooses to identify so loyally and not peddle agenda for others. This makes us non stereotype engaging in many fields. This is 50th interface with the establishment on various issues exerting pressure to move policy, admission of education subsidy for war widow's children being one.
We are not used to intrusion in our territory by any with coercive intent and share our views only to evoke thought with positive interaction and not to invite subversion. We also do not need any recognition or accolades which we entertain only from children below 18. At our functions the local DM sits in invitees pavilion while watching village girls and boys being the VIPs.
We hope this settles the avoidable and wasteful engagement of this nature.
chauhan- Original Message -----From: Ranjit RaiCc: Brig YUDHVIR ; parvez ; Vinod SAIGHAL ; Veterans for justice ; militray banglaore ; Bombay Sappers ; 109 ; manmohan ; Amit Bhaduri ; rajendra ; manmohan ; Indian Veterans Group ; editor@rajputindia.com ; editor@tehelka.com ; AVM S L Dutta (Retd) ; Ms Barkha Dutt ; B.B.Desai ; kiran bedi ; ajai singh ; surendra srivastava ; Govinda Menon ; Dr Trivedi ; afroz sahil ; nagdads@yahoo.com ; B P S Chandel ; Baldev Lall ; PRO ; Col B Singh ; Sat ; Brig Kr KN Singh ; Wing Cdr Gautam Guha ; Maj Gen SP Aul ; Maj Gen SP Aul ; Brig HS Chaudhary ; Col B Singh ; bhawani ; P Renjen ; SPS Rawat ; Viajay Oberai ; Maj Gen Rajinder Singh,VSM ; Maj Gen Lakhwinder Singh,YSM ; Lt Gen NS Malik, PVSM ; Col M S Krishnamoorty ; kmehra ; Jeet Khanna ; JEET KHANNA ; Kamal Khanna ; kamal khanna ; Maj Gen JS Kapoor ; Lt Gen V K Kapoor ; Atul Dev ; def Air Mshl (retd) s r deshpande ; Rear Admiral Kuruvilla ? ; Maj Gen Pushpendra Singh ? ; Brig P T Gangadharan ?Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2011 12:11 AMSubject: Re: [HumJanenge] FAX TO RM ON DOB Word Document.docThis Fax was an unnecessary interference by Saniksangh as this a matter between the AG and MOD and the Chief and what the Chief accepts in the highest and finest traditions of the fine Indian Army he joined and lived with a date in the ARMY LIST, all his illustrious career.
The Army Chief has to set an example and ensure the controversy ends with the Governments decision, right or wrong. A fax by a self grown organisation is in poor taste but its a democracy so they can do so, but to imply the next Chief if he comes in in 2012 will not be as good as Gen VK Singh smacks of a personal bias and interest in the case though the Fax cleverly say they have no personal bias. Typical of India seen by PM's statement in 2G/CWG issued by PMO not himself. Do generals want to be such.
Are we readers of this group so gullible ? .........If Gen VK gets a lease of life till 2013 a Dynasty Change will take place in the senior line up of the Indian Army and that in an Armed Force will show that we are in 2G category too, intellectually corrupt. We retired, should keep clear and so in many cases, unless you join journalism when more people at large will judge . We retired are setting up groups that are not recognized by the Armed Forces and are capable of embarrassing them, like the return of medals. The President does not care for that as RM should dis regard this fax in the WPL.
I hear Sanik Sangh is doing great work in villages and that is laudable .....Let those in uniform now do their job.....We old timers did ours. We would not have liked outside interference.
Lets be retired soldiers, sailors and airmen of self respect.
Cmde Retd Ranjit B Rai as discussed at the golf course today.
On 2 August 2011 06:26, Sainiksangh <gs@sainiksangh.org> wrote:
In Service of the Nation, Society and Fraternity
vf[ky Hkkjrh; iwoZ lSfud la?k
All India Ex Soldier's League
web site sainiksangh.org Telefax 011-26891513
e-mail : gs@sainiksangh.org ; web sainiksangh.org
Tele: 011-26891513
HQ : 6090-B8 Vasant Kunj New Delhi Priority – URGENT
To:
Shri AK Anthony
H'ble Raksha Mantri
FAX
From: Lt Gen GS Growl, PVSM (rtd) President AIESL
Maj Gen APS Chauhan (rtd) President Sainik sangh Vice President AIESL
Fax 23015403
Pages: 4
Copy to Defence Secretary
Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2011
Security: Unclassified
Transmitted by Maj Gen APS Chauhan
Firstly: Greetings from our fraternity and integrated Graam Samitees.
Secondly: This memorandum is a fall out from the regrettable controversy on COAS's date of birth attracting a public debate causing great concern at the grass root level.
Thirdly: You are conscious of the assault on reputation and virtues of the military institution on a continuous basis which must have a telling effect not only on our national prestige but pointedly on those sections of rural which field our fighting elements. Now it is the controversy about the date of birth of the incumbent Chief of the Army Staff Gen VK Singh.
On the face if it and simplistically an error or anomalous entry but irreconcilable and incorrigible being on his record. The ramifications of this are however grave and which cannot be wished away or disposed of as simplistically as may appear. This faux pas introduces extremely undesirable and damaging conflict of interests and a predicament for the establishment as to which date should decide the date of retirement of the General. Any choice will be tantamount to becoming arbitrary and challengeable.
Fourthly: We take this opportunity to share our position on this is a matter of concern for the entire veterans community as tarnishing of military image must hurt it most. There are a few postulates which stand out and give direction to resolving this extraordinary and exceptional case.
A: That the anomaly exists and was allowed to, over the entire period of the General's service speaks poorly of our efficiency in house keeping, responsibility for which rests entirely with the Ministry.
B: That the anomaly has been made public, when this is part of a highly confidential document and taken with its timing , raises alarm on vulnerability, the lack of integrity and reliability of those handling these sensitive documents. It follows that this lapse has remained covered in books even if by neglect but leaked with full knowledge of the repercussions of this thus a deliberate act of felony. This requires immediate action to fix responsibility and book the culprits.
C: Per say and axiomatically the clerical error thus assumes a diluted status becoming inconsequential when taken in context of the larger implication and gravity of the act of leaking the information. This must become a primary concern at the Ministry as it manifests a threat within, in these troubled times and more ahead, with which there aught to be no delay in dealing.
D: Security ramifications aside, a controversy of this nature involving the head of a military service of the nation should never have come to be debated as a law problem in public making us a laughing stock. Military management is not playing snakes and ladders as much as battles not won in court room's .This points acutely at our insensitivity to nuances beyond the immediate for the impact this can have at national level. Specifically sending wrong message to the soldier that the system that fields his commanders is highly suspect, which we think it is , denting his pride and trust which can result in breakdown of discipline, which is showing so and for which only the Ministry is finally accountable to the people.
E: Gen VK Singh took charge at an unenviable moment when our military image was already getting a battering at hands of sub-calibre generalship which logically led him to pledge publicly to attend to the health of the institution as his top priority. As any duty conscious incumbent would in the troubled circumstances and restore confidence at large. That despite a protracted neglect of the institution no earlier incumbent found it necessary to engage such, was in itself extraordinary and a relief. Indications are that is being apparently pursued vigorously as evident from the indictment of two previous Chiefs for involvement in land scandals. Indeed his predecessor had not only brought along a dim reputation from Northern Command of which you are fully seized, raising another public controversy, but understandably did all to cover misdemeanors of other senior officers under his charge some to our knowledge later indicted or waiting to be for similar misconduct. The fact that despite his reputation Gen Deepak Kapoor had been clearing successive rungs of advancement was itself bewildering and intriguing which we are sure is receiving your fullest attention as there cannot be a greater urgency at the Ministry than to shore up its invulnerability, both the MS Branch and the JS (G) not always carrying the distinction of upholding the credibility of their own offices. Officers with 5 point reports have made to Army Commanders. The leaking of information thus has an uncanny but definite connection with the previous Chief during whose tenure this leak was presumably detected. This affair therefore smacks of a deep conspiracy which must be exposed with urgency in national interest.
F: The higher interest of the Army and national security must remain the overriding factor to set the case at rest without further speculations and delay. An unsettled state of this nature is bad for military morale, distracting and impeding the COAS to conduct his business and disrupting continuity where this may be vital and critical in implementing measures to clean up the inherited mess which is deep and extensive. For this his services must be available for the maximum period possible much this may mean against vested interests wanting to extract their pound of flesh from this anomaly. We must instill confidence in the military and set a route for much needed corrections and reforms in officer grooming without which the military cannot be fitted out to deliver the consequences of which can be mind boggling; provided ofcourse there is a will and inclination to correct the decay.
G: The clerical anomaly must therefore not fog the exercise of decision making in the best interest of the country. Both military and civil bureaucracy must not disconnect with the psychology of the soldier, understood so well by the colonial masters nearly brought to their knees once, which understands only one language that his Chief cannot be brought under dispute whatever the nature as he must be spotless in every way to lead them into battle. We have been avoiding this test so far.
H: RM's advice to the military not to fonder media is sound but must be addressed to his Ministry too to create conditions to obviate the need for this.
Fifthly: This memorandum is not a brief for any individual or a lobby for any interests but one against such what is inimical to the interests of the soldier and the nation. An alert on setting right the standards of functioning and conduct which has a bearing on lives of men.
Signed
chauhan
--
Cmde (R)Ranjit B Rai
Vice President Indian Maritime Foundation Tel 24330087 M 9810066172
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