To all the wise men in this committed group of Indian nationals
1. What is saffron terror ?? Amazing we all use the phrase, but please rememner the founding fathers felt saffron was the face of India, right on the flag unfurled on 15 August 1947 ? Is that not the 'terror" unleased by Nehru
Is it not disgusting that media has converted the real colour of whata India stands for, into a " terror " symbol, and is this media Indian, Italian, Muslim, or plain lust for ads and TRP s and getting more income ?
Should we not stop this abuse of the Indian flag, constitution, peoples favorite colour just because some terrorists wear saffron ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; like Kalmadi wears the most expensive suits, so get that brand and call it the brand of corruption ?
2. Has any one asked what Ramdev asked for 11 000 Indians to be trained it ?
Media has givben its interpretation , agreeing with Chidu's ( what a horrible short name given by media to a man of high intellect ) that it is war against the republic..........................
But no one has really heard what he said ....................................but I as some one who faced British lathis, will say that the British never used violence against the unarmed, the sleeping women and children, the masses of Indians who had no wealth but only their beleifs................................like the police of Delhi undcer the direction of the powers to be
I ask this question if I and you are so attacked by the Police, as indeed the Indian womanhood, the aam janta
are.........................unless you pay their price,
should the women open their saris and get raped, or should they not fight in self defense ????????
should their men, give their wealth such as they have to these police and their bosses, and take their lathi charges ( India is not part of the civilised wjorld where lathis are abandoned long back, ) with folded hands
or should not all Indians fight back and be trained in self defence ? And is that what Ramdev meant ?
To alll the wise men, I ask one question, have you faced a lathi even once ? if yes would you not rather seize the lathi from the illegal aggressorsl and make them run away
And is that what Swami Ramdev meant, should his camps have voluntgeer guards, Indians, like the polititicians who have paid machine gun holders to protect themselves against the citizens of India,
Should we not stop this abuse of the Indian flag, constitution, peoples favorite colour just because some terrorists wear saffron ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;; like Kalmadi wears the most expensive suits, so get that brand and call it the brand of corruption ?
2. Has any one asked what Ramdev asked for 11 000 Indians to be trained it ?
Media has givben its interpretation , agreeing with Chidu's ( what a horrible short name given by media to a man of high intellect ) that it is war against the republic..........................
But no one has really heard what he said ....................................but I as some one who faced British lathis, will say that the British never used violence against the unarmed, the sleeping women and children, the masses of Indians who had no wealth but only their beleifs................................like the police of Delhi undcer the direction of the powers to be
I ask this question if I and you are so attacked by the Police, as indeed the Indian womanhood, the aam janta
are.........................unless you pay their price,
should the women open their saris and get raped, or should they not fight in self defense ????????
should their men, give their wealth such as they have to these police and their bosses, and take their lathi charges ( India is not part of the civilised wjorld where lathis are abandoned long back, ) with folded hands
or should not all Indians fight back and be trained in self defence ? And is that what Ramdev meant ?
To alll the wise men, I ask one question, have you faced a lathi even once ? if yes would you not rather seize the lathi from the illegal aggressorsl and make them run away
And is that what Swami Ramdev meant, should his camps have voluntgeer guards, Indians, like the polititicians who have paid machine gun holders to protect themselves against the citizens of India,
Wishing you a lifetime of winning days,
Akhil Marfatia
From: Mr. Hemant Kshirsagar <hemantkshirsagar01@gmail.com>
To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, June 15, 2011 11:01 AM
Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] The saffron and Green terrorism is also corrupt way of using ReligionRespected Sir,
Sorry for disturbance, though the group has been for the RTI, there has surely been a good forum for discussing of the social issues.
there are quiet intelligent people around this group, unlike the other groups.
Regards,
Hemant Kshirsagar
+91 8149322665On Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 10:54 AM, ashish kumar <ashishkr1965@gmail.com> wrote:
The problem with this rampant abuse / diversion of HumJanenge group's resources for non-RTI is that everyone is equally affected and polarised.
I propose that from midnight between 15 and 16th July 2011 we shall revert this group back to RTI after consulting other the moderators like Shri Sarabjit and Shri Sharma.
AshishOn Wed, Jun 15, 2011 at 10:23 AM, HG PANDYA <hgpandya@gmail.com> wrote:
Mr. Sarabjit,
y this asim.human@gmail.com is allowed for nonRTI matters. He is
biased and believes his own thoughts. He must go along with others
like him to south africa and get a treatment there. see Mahatme Gandhi
also had done injustice to Subhaschandra Bose and Bhagatsingh. He also
professed his own line and not allowed others thought. They were also
of the opinion to defend by weapons. He can't see the atrocities by
police at midnight. What right the police have to harrass this people
peacefully gathered?
I want to add one more point that no commission come out with clear
facts regarding Subhaschandra Bose because while going thru the facts
they find these people Gandhi and Nehru involved in it, and so nobody
allowes to declare the hidden files with Home and MEA ministries.
On Tue, Jun 14, 2011 at 7:05 PM, <asim.human@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear all,
> For using any of the teachings of Mahatma Gandhiji we all need to learn
> tolerance. We have to build new nation of Democratic valu in which there
> shall be no importance to Temples and Mosques but more importance shall be
> given to basic infrastructures like building toilets, barrier free
> government offices etc. Civil Rights shall be given priority than any non
> issues to which the fundamentalists always giving hyper imp. The terrorism
> of any colour is disgraceful for good governance. So all good citizens
> should keep distance from such provocative thoughts. The corruption related
> to money is very important but the behavioural corruption, constant mis
> guiding on imp facts are criminal things. All such parties and their leaders
> needs to be taken to forest of south Africa and we shall leave them in deep
> forest from where these dirty persons shall not return back and nature will
> teach them lesson.
> - Asim Sarode
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from !DEA
>
> ________________________________
> From: ramans shriman <msb931@yahoo.com>
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 06:06:07 -0700 (PDT)
> To: <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>; <asim.human@gmail.com>
> Cc: <desiyatra@googlegroups.com>;
> <stop-corruption-worldwide@googlegroups.com>; <drtogadia@gmail.com>; VHP
> INT'L HQs DELHI\(Goutam Chatterjee\)<vhpintlhqs@gmail.com>; Bjp
> Itcell<bjp.karnataka.itcell.facebook@gmail.com>; Shiv
> Sena<mazamaharashtra@shivsena.org>; <karishma_ray@yahoo.com>;
> hindujagruti<hindu.jagruti@gmail.com>; Hindu media monitoring
> Chennai<hindumediamonitoringchennai@yahoo.com>
> Subject: they shall all learn democracy and Satyagraha- two will go out
> togather
> since the democracy or dirty democracy is not a product of India ,
> corruption is also not. its evidence n froof is the macauly's notes to uk
> when he toured india.
> the dirty democracy of india n the dirty democracy inspired human behaviour
> of the empowered called corruption have to go togather out of india . one
> will not go n never go w/o the other. two will go out togather
>
> ________________________________
> From: "asim.human@gmail.com" <asim.human@gmail.com>
> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Tue, June 14, 2011 9:42:47 AM
> Subject: [HumJanenge] Re: they shall all learn democracy and Satyagraha
>
> Dear All,
> Baba Ramdev's statement regarding creating an army with weapons was a great
> dent to the movement against corruption. We all should accept the fact that
> the Yoga Guru is not having perfect-Democratic thought base and
> understanding. The fundamentalist parties like BJP and their allies also
> dented Baba Ramdev's initiative. He allowed the tainted and self proclaimed-
> violent Sadhvi to sit with him on stage was one of the great mistakes.
> Ramdev Baba don't know even 'Sa' of Satyagraha. The issue of Black Money is
> defiantly related our lives as citizens of India but the way to solve it can
> be different than such movements that to led by opportunist Baba Ramdev.
> Anna Hazare is a person with simplicity. And there can not be any doubts
> about him and his motives, like we are having many doubts about Baba Ramdev.
> But we must keep in mind that Anna is not having clear understanding about
> Democracy and Democratic processes. He just likes media and publicity. Anna
> was never a Gandhian in real sense, but now he got to know very clearly that
> 'being Gandhian' is beneficial.
> So with all these flaws we need to accept Anna but we shall not give any
> scope to persons of loose mentality like Ramdev Baba to lead any movements
> related to citizen rights.
> - Adv. Asim Sarode
>
> Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone from !DEA
>
> ________________________________
> From: "Y.P. Anand" <ypanandindia@yahoo.co.in>
> Sender: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2011 10:34:47 +0530 (IST)
> To: <humjanenge@googlegroups.com>
> ReplyTo: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC will
> never ask for
> Dear Shri Devasahayam,
> I agree with you that corruption is a very widespread issue and trying to
> enforce some simplistic or quick-fix solutions in isolation, without a
> deeper study of the issue in its numerous aspects, can only be illusory. I
> feel that such a trend is also the result of self-righteous attitudes which
> are based more on ignorance mixed with arrogance than on a deep
> understanding of the subject.
>
> With regards,
> YP Anand .
>
> ________________________________
> From: Devasahayam MG <mgd@airtelmail.in>
> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 13 June, 2011 9:05:28 PM
> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC will
> never ask for
>
> Dear friends,
>
> I have been one of the staunchest opponent of corruption in any form and
> have been closely following this corruption debate. But I am also a follower
> of the Holy Bible. There is a famous passage in the Bible that says "Why do
> you see the speck that is in other's eyes, but do not notice the log that is
> in your own eye?" I hope the message is clear. To make it explicit I will
> reproduce the interview I gave to a Tamil Magazine recently on this theme:
>
> Question 7: As an activist of anti-corruption movement, what is your
> suggested prescription to keep the corruption in check or any headway
> possible in the movement in the coming years? What should be the people's
> role?
>
> Ans. The ongoing commotion about corruption is like six blind men
> describing an elephant by feeling different parts of the animal's body. The
> blind man who feels a leg says the elephant is like a pillar; the one who
> feels the tail says it is like a rope; the one who feels the trunk says it
> is like a tree branch; the one who feels the ear says it is like a hand fan;
> the one who feels the belly says it is like a wall; and the one who feels
> the tusk says it is like a solid pipe.
>
> This is what is happening about corruption, the hydra-headed
> monster which is being understood and described differently by different
> people and in the process concerted and concentrated action to combat the
> evil is not taking place. For this we need first to understand the root
> causes of this all-pervading evil:
>
> 1. Corruption has more to do with our culture and social values. For
> instance the most prevalent social practice of dowry itself is a serious
> form of corruption –girl's parents heavily bribing boy's parents for her to
> be taken into their household. This and other forms of corruption like
> making cash & kind offerings to deities for favours and blindly following
> corrupt and decadent religious priests and preachers are socially and
> culturally rooted in our society. How then can governments and businesses
> escape from this evil?
>
> 2. Our electoral process that brings forth government leaders is riddled
> with corruption and voters are waiting to be bribed with cash and
> 'freebies'. It is but natural that corrupt elections will throw up only
> corrupt government. How then can corruption be eliminated?
>
> 3. Constitution is the charter of India's governance that has established
> some of the finest institutions and instruments of democratic governance
> backed by appropriate laws and legislations. But nearly six decades down the
> line these institutions/instruments have degenerated and lost their capacity
> to govern with the laws and legislations remaining only on paper. There is
> no integrity left in these institutions. What then is the use of enacting
> more laws and creating more institutions?
>
> My prescription therefore would be to focus on elimination of
> societal and electoral corruption and restoration of institutional
> integrity. For this, people need not perform miracles. All they need to do
> is to reject corrupt customs and practices in society, refuse to accept
> 'freebies' and cash as bribe for voting and insist that the institutions and
> instruments of governance perform their tasks as per the laws of the land.
>
> M.G.Devasahayam
>
> _________________________________________________________________________________________
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:40 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear Satish Ji
>>
>> If you ask me personally I agree with you 100%. However, some of our
>> members (who consider themselves to be corruption fighters) have requested
>> that discussions on LokPal / Anna / Baba etc will be of general interest to
>> many of our members and have requested that discussions be allowed in June
>> also.
>>
>> The Moderators monitor the activity on this group[ very carefully. We try
>> and allow a sufficient degree of free speech on this group which is within
>> the boundaries of decency and rules of debating. Hence this is one of the
>> very few groups where very free and frank (and often with fresh perspective)
>> speech can take place.
>>
>> So I am requesting you also to please put up with this till end of this
>> month. You concern has been carefully noted and we shall endeavour to see
>> that you are not disturbed unduly.
>>
>> At the same time our errant members should take notice that if LKPB
>> discussion overshadows RTI here, the facility will be instantly terninated.
>>
>> Sarbajit
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 8:23 PM, Satish Kumar Kapoor
>> <kapoorsatish@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Mr Sarbajit,
>>> When some body posts some topics not connected with RTI, u say that this
>>> forum is meant for discussion of RTI matters, then why discuss Lokpal
>>> bill/Anna Hazare/Baba Ramdev etc.
>>> S.K.Kapoor
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
>>> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
>>> Sent: Mon, June 13, 2011 6:04:17 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC will
>>> never ask for
>>>
>>> I am not afraid of this Bill/Law.
>>> I am against it because the way certain people are going about it
>>> subverts all democratic and constitutional norms / systems
>>> I am not interested in the least to be on any Govt body/post. My writings
>>> on this are purely a tactical move.
>>> Sarbajit
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 5:16 PM, Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Dear Sarabjit,
>>>> What are you affraid of? Even if the Jan Lokpal Bill is drafted, do you
>>>> think Parliament will pass it? You are so venomous against all, just
>>>> because you were not made a member of this group? You have made amply clear
>>>> in various postings that you are more than qualified and should have been
>>>> included, but Government did not choose to and hance you have leashed this
>>>> anti compaign. ha! ha!
>>>>
>>>> From: Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com>
>>>> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
>>>> Sent: Monday, 13 June 2011 2:40 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC
>>>> will never ask for
>>>>
>>>> Dear Hemant
>>>>
>>>> Sometimes Individuals (acting as ninjas) can achieve more than crowds.
>>>> Take an example in my own case (because you asked in a previous email)
>>>>
>>>> I played a pivotal role in getting Mr Pramod Mahajan out of the Union
>>>> Cabinet when he was Telecom Minister. Because of this the Govt was able to
>>>> get about Rs. 3,000+ crores as revenue for licence violations (actually they
>>>> didnt have a licence in the first place - only the blessings of Ataljis
>>>> "family". I could only do this because there ARE honest babus - who need
>>>> fearless, honest & skilled citizens to do what they cant do themselves.
>>>>
>>>> Sarbajit
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 2:02 PM, Mr. Hemant Kshirsagar
>>>> <hemantkshirsagar01@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So that does not mean that we can ignore such good platforms for the
>>>> same.
>>>>
>>>> Do we as an individual have a power to collect such fan following???
>>>>
>>>> The least we can do is follow such people who create a movementum for
>>>> the same.
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 1:52 PM, Sarbajit Roy <sroy.mb@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi Mr Rangarajan
>>>>
>>>> FIRST: The fear of God will not be put into dishonest public servants by
>>>> new laws or "old wine in new bottles"<he he>.
>>>>
>>>> SECOND: The existing laws are essentially decentralised into various
>>>> investigative agencies with some checks and balances. Now the fascist forces
>>>> want centralised laws / big brother / police + judge to be combined at one
>>>> point / grid.
>>>>
>>>> THIRD: All these people - Anna, Baba, Bhushan&Bhushan, Arvind, Hegde
>>>> are essentially COLLABORATORS who have all regularly taken Govt money at
>>>> some point in time for services rendered Such QUISLINGS are doing all this
>>>> drama knowing very well that "only the small fish will be caught while the
>>>> big operators will carry on"- (and can Mr Prasanth Bhushan deny that he made
>>>> this remark in a public place albeit privately?)
>>>>
>>>> Sarbajit
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 13, 2011 at 12:27 PM, Mathre Rangarajan <rangajan@yahoo.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> M. Rangarajan,
>>>> (retired Group General Manager ONGC)
>>>> B 2 – 301, SRIRAM SPANDHANA,
>>>> Chellaghatta village,
>>>> Bangalore – 560037.
>>>> Phone: 25227955, mobile 9945091581
>>>> e-mail: rangajan@yahoo.com / rangajan@gmail.com
>>>> Dated 13th June 2011
>>>> The following two statements in the below postings is quite interesting:
>>>>
>>>> First - "put the fear of God into dishonest public servants" - how do
>>>> you do it? It is very obvious that exixting laws have failed to do this and
>>>> everybody agrees without any exception. Do you expect our honourable M Ps
>>>> who are leaders in curruption (may be baring very very few) will ever pass a
>>>> law to end curruption? Not in my life time.
>>>>
>>>> Second - "NEGATIVE laws which will turn India into a POLICE STATE
>>>> controlled by fascist forces" - Why do you need any new law for this - the
>>>> existing laws are enough - Smt Indira Gandhi declared ememgency - Delhi
>>>> police brutally beat up innocent sleeping people - there are hundreds of
>>>> examples of such brutal action by state in the past in India.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> From: Dr. NC JAIN <j_nc@hotmail.com>
>>>> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
>>>> Sent: Monday, 13 June 2011 11:20 AM
>>>> Subject: RE: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC
>>>> will never ask for
>>>>
>>>> Dear sir
>>>> I donot agree with you. You might recall an incident in history when
>>>> Pandits of India stated that Mohmad Gajnavi will not do anything to the
>>>> Somnath temple because, they have saved the temple with their Mantras&
>>>> Slokas. Everyone knows the result. Today, it is Kalyoug,where things have to
>>>> be snatched and not given. You have to fight for your right , no one is
>>>> going to donate it. In theses circumstances, it is appropriate to fuel the
>>>> fire for the second war of independence started by Jaiprakash Narain.The
>>>> war is to make Indians free.
>>>> Dr N C Jain
>>>> 13-6-11
>>>>
>>>> Date: Mon, 13 Jun 2011 01:30:10 +0530
>>>> Subject: [HumJanenge] 3 POSITIVE points which Baba, Anna and IAC will
>>>> never ask for
>>>> From: sroy.mb@gmail.com
>>>> To: humjanenge@googlegroups.com
>>>>
>>>> Baba, SrSri, Anna, Swami-A, Swami-S, GuruV, GuruM ....
>>>>
>>>> 3 small POSITIVE steps (followed in many progressive countries) is all
>>>> it takes to generate the momentum to reduce corruption to the point where it
>>>> will cease to affect the ordinary citizens (ie those who pay bribes for
>>>> daily services, school admissions, building sanctions etc), reduce
>>>> inflation, and put the fear of God into dishonest public servants.
>>>>
>>>> Why have all these Babas and Swamis not agitated for these POSITIVE
>>>> steps while instead only demanding NEGATIVE laws which will turn India into
>>>> a POLICE STATE controlled by fascist forces ?
>>>>
>>>> .
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
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