Re: [rti_india] Re: Electronic Submission of RTI Request with online payment

Dear Sarbajit,

Please provide me the link to the decision related to section 4 information disclosure which you refer in your reply. I tried to search in CIC website. However could not find it.

I hope the group also gets benefited from your link.

Thanks,

Kapil

----- Original Message -----

From: sarbajitr

To: rti_india@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:59 PM

Subject: [rti_india] Re: Electronic Submission of RTI Request with online payment

Dear Sameer

I shall answer you backwards

1) I try to only apply for section 4 information using email. There is no need for any Rs.10 fee for this.

2) AFTER failing to get information u/s 4 process, and when I file my formal section 6 RTI, I advise the PIO in my email that as he / his PA has failed to disseminate to the public the facilities for online "NEFT" fund transfer for his PA, I shall only pay him the Rs.10 IF he demands it from me, in the same breath I remind him that the CIC has held (incl. in one of my cases) that section 4 information disclosure needs no application or payment AND THE PIO IS LIABLE FOR THE FAILURE TO COMPLY WITH SECTION 4 DISSEMINATION. Till now no PIO has asked me for the Rs.10 when I approach this way.

3) Every time the CIC (institution) interprets the law "liberally" the aggrieved party runs to High Court and gets a stay immediately. God spare us from CIC's liberal interpretations.

4) Every time CIC (Habibullah) interprets the law "liberally" we have no dearth of members here (incl me) who pillory him. We do this because as per section 12(1) the CIC is a BODY consisting of the Chief and his 10 assistants - the onus for a bad decision being Mr Habibullah's. We want Habibullah to interpret the law "strictly" and not "liberally". Mr Habibullah has a very bad habit of being strict with some excellent applicants and very liberal to his NGO PR lobby who treat CIC(institution) as their 'baap ka dukaan'.

5) CIC has no powers to direct a PA to implement electronic fund transfers for 6(1). I say this because in my recent High Court double bench versus DDA, the CIC's senior counsel and Registrar were both crying that the C'IC (Chief) has no directive powers to enforce anything against 3rd parties or public authorities. I CHALLENGE YOU TO FIND ANY POWERS OF CIC TO "DIRECT". For an APPEAL the CIC may "REQUIRE" the PA to do various things spelt out in 19(8)(a) for "compliance" - no mention here of electronic fund transfers. Please note the word "compliance" carefully - as a DoPT man you will understand the significance.

6) for MCA21 - the key phrase is "the user may choose". The entire burden for lack of security notifications has been thrust onto the user. For nit-picking people like me, I would insist that FIRST the Central Govt should notify the security procedures THEN the financial institutions/State should implement it THEREAFTER I "may" choose to avail the facility.

Sarbajit

--- In rti_india@yahoogroups.com, "Sameer Sachdeva" <sachdeva_sameer@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Sarbajit,
>
> I fully agree with you. But my e-mail to Sh. Habibullah was to the institution of CIC and not to him as an individual. May be I should have just mentioned Chief Information Commission and not the name.
>
> With regards to his powers, I think the RTI Act gives him power to direct the Public Authorities to do the needful. I agree with you that he cannot direct DoPT in any way but atleast initiate discussion on the same. or atleast have electronic submission facilitated in CIC.
>
> Having said above you will agree with me that the SC/HC cannot direct Parliament to make a law. But in many cases the Supreme Court / High Courts have given wider interpetation of the law. And in this case CIC has all powers to interpret section 6(1) regarding electronic submisssion of RTI request.
>
> With regards to chasing DoPT I do not want the axe to fall on my foot as DoPT may come forward and say that the Fees and Cost Rules do not permit electronic payment (but the act does ??). Having worked with Ministry of Personnel I will be the last person to approach them.
>
> With regards to MCA21 project the Amendment to general rules and forms under the Companies Act permit electronic payment.
> "provided also that, where application is filed through electronic media or through any other computer media, the user may choose any one of the following options namely,(i) credit card; or (ii) Internet Banking; or (iii)....................."
> http://www.mca.gov.in/Ministry/latestnews/e-formsnotification.pdf
>
>
> However I will be glad to know how have you sent the fee while applying under RTI through e-mail.
>
> regards,
>
> sameer sachdeva
>
> --- In rti_india@yahoogroups.com, "sarbajitr" <sroy1947@> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Sameer
> >
> > It is pointless writing to Mr Habibullah - in any case he is facing enough harassment / abuse on this group.
> >
> > The CIC has absolutely no role to play in this process nor does he have any power to direct DoPT to do anything on this. You ought to be chasing DoPT and challenging their Fee and Cost Rules in a High Court.
> > You may note that the RTI act (sec 27) does not explicitly permit DoPT to specify the MODE OF PAYMENT for application fee.
> >
> > In any case as a former DoIT employee you should know that electronic transactions in India will only be possible once the Central Govt frames and notifies the security procedures of secure electronic transactions - under Information Technology Act. The MCA-21 is operating in breach of law. So you must also make DoIT and MCA parties in your Writ.
> >
> > I have sent quite a few RTI request by email, and never faced a problem.
> >
> > Regards
> > Sarbajit
> >
> > --- In rti_india@yahoogroups.com, Sameer Sachdeva <sachdeva_sameer@> wrote:
> > >
> > > 11th Dec'2009
> > >
> > > Sh. Wajahat Habibullah,
> > > Chief Information Commissioner
> > > Central Information Commission
> > > Government of India
> > >
> > > Sub: Electronic Submission of RTI Request with online payment
> > >
> > > Dear Sir,
> > >
> > > 1. Whereby Section 6 (1) of the RTI Act empowers a citizen to obtain information in electronic form.
> > > ( 6(1) A person, who desires to obtain any information under this Act, shall make a request in writing or through electronic means in English or Hindi or in the official language of the area in which the application is being made, accompanying such fee as may be prescribed, to....)
> > >
> > > 2. There are very few public authorities who have listed the email addresses of the CPIO/ Appellate Authority on their website to facilitate online submission of RTI request.
> > >
> > > 3. As per the knowledge of undersign not even a single Public Authority (including CIC while acting as Public Authority under RTI Act) has made any reference to the Bank Account Number (or any alternate method like credit card ) for online payment of RTI request fees of Rs 10.
> > >
> > > 4. Therefore I would request you to direct all Public Authorities to implement the complete provisions of Section 6(1) of RTI Act and facilitate electronic submission of RTI request along with provisions of online payment.
> > >
> > > 5. I would also request you to direct DoPT to frame necessary rules / issue notifications in this regard. (if required)
> > >
> > > 6. A sensatization of all State Information Commissions on the above subject may also be considered.
> > >
> > > 7. State Governments of Bihar (through the Jankari Project) and State Government of Orissa (through portal http://www.rtiorissa.gov.in/ ) have already implemented the same in a limited way.
> > >
> > > 8. With regards to technical feasibility the online submission of application through portal http://www.rtiorissa.gov.in/ is a good example and the online payment system has already been implemented by many Government Projects like Online reservation of rail tickets and MCA21. Therefore there are no legal and technical issues in implementing the above. I believe that Department of Information Technology (GOI) and National Informatics Centre (NIC) which are implementing the prestigous National e-Governance Plan (NeGP) will come forward to assist the various Public Authorities in this step towards greater transparency. I have separately written to CPIOs in a few Public Authorities championing e-Governance like DIT, DARPG, NIC,NISG etc requesting implementation of the said provisions within their Departments. I will share their response with you whenever recieved
> > >
> > > 9. Having said above I will be glad if you can direct all Public Authorities to implement the electronic submission of RTI requests and put up the detailed procedure for same on their websites.
> > >
> > > 10. Being the custodians of RTI implementation in country it will be a national benchmark if CIC as Public Authority implements e-governance in RTI request processing and facilitate electronic submission of RTI requests. (along with electronic payment)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > With Regards,
> > >
> > > Sameer Sachdeva
> > > 162, GH4, Meera Apartments
> > > Pachim Vihar, New Delhi - 110063
> > > Ph. 011-45522890; Mobile : 9999337900
> > > http://sites.google.com/site/superwhistleblower/
> > >
> >
>